A few days ago, I asked, as an experiment, which of these two statements was more offensive: “there is a god” and “there is no god”. While most of the replies I got were perfectly reasonable (paraphrasing vjack, neither statement is offensive, but one of them is false), the lack of responses by either “normal” theists – especially of the typical, born-again, Protestant kind –, and “non-militant” atheists (the ones who have no belief themselves, but take special care not to offend believers) prevented this experiment from uncovering the kind of replies I wanted: the ones that say that “there is no god” is offensive, but can’t explain why; they just feel that it is. Having atheists say so would have been particularly interesting.
Which just shows that this blog is no Friendly Atheist. 
Still, this doesn’t prevent me from answering my own question, in detail. As others said, neither statement by itself is offensive – much like “2+2=4” and “2+2=5” aren’t. One of them is right and the other is not, but a simple claim shouldn’t be offensive to anyone.
However, these statements aren’t said in a vacuum. When you say either of them, you are probably – even if unconsciously – adding something to it. How much, depends on the individual. Similarly, when you hear one of those statements – especially if it’s the one you disagree with –, you tend to add implications to it.
“There is a god”, when said to an atheist, only has no extra meanings when said by either a deist or an incredibly liberal believer (so liberal he couldn’t possibly be called a “Christian” or similar). If said by virtually every other kind of believer, it includes one or more of the following:
- I’m right and you’re wrong
- I’m saved and you’re not; you’re going to hell
- You’re immoral for not believing, and for having no source of morality
- (if in a Christian community) You’re an outsider; you’re not one of us; you’re not a real American/whatever
- Your life is incomplete; you can’t possibly be happy
- Jesus died for you, you ungrateful monster
- It’s because of people like you that evil exists
- If you don’t believe, you’re just in denial; God’s existence is obvious
- You must allow me to convert you, otherwise you’re screwed.
(note that I said “one or more of”. I don’t mean that every theist believes all of those, or means all of those.)
Meanwhile, and to be fair, when an atheist says “there is no god”, here’s what he can mean, or at least what believers hear:
- I’m right and you’re wrong
- You’re stupid
- You were conned
- You’re brainwashed
- You’re a sheep
- You only have those beliefs because you’ve never thought about them
- You’re irrational
- Your religion is a crutch, because you can’t cope with the real world
- You’ve wasted your life. Time, money, effort, hopes, fears: all of it was for nothing.
The last one is particularly poignant, and I love Dan Dennett’s take on it. When you think about it, that is perhaps the worst thing you can tell a person – which doesn’t mean that it’s not true –, and it’s understandable that many people find it utterly offensive, even if that wasn’t the goal. Incredibly, I think it can hurt people’s feelings even more than, for instance, saying “you’re immoral and you’re going to hell”, because a non-believer knows that those are not true, and that the believer is just speaking from ignorance. But “you’ve wasted your life” is a real, actual, present “threat” – one that must be fought at all costs. Because otherwise you feel like an utter failure, an utter waste of a life.
This explains why there were so many complaints about atheist / secular signs during the past months. Now, granted, some can actually be an attack on belief, and offensive to believers, but some the ones they complained about said something as inoffensive as “Don’t believe in God? You’re not alone”, or, as Ebonmuse put it, “Atheists exist”. And even these were seen as personal offenses, as attacks on their faith, as “liberal Christian-bashing”, and other absurdities. Perhaps, from this angle, I can understand their otherwise incomprehensible anger: the fact that atheists exist and have a voice is a constant threat on their own perceived self-worth. “If atheists exist (and can speak out, and have normal lives), then perhaps, just perhaps, I’ve wasted my life.”
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“You have wasted your life”. THANK YOU. That is EXACTLY what I think of certain individuals.
To be fair, I do also know many people of faith who have put their faith into action–public service, humanitarian aid, and generally manifesting a sense of equality and dignity toward all. In my mind, those who turn their faith into a force for positive activity can’t be entirely faulted — they actually do good, regardless the internal (religious) motivation. They ‘do’ instead of ‘talk’. And that’s cool.
But the majority of people (including myself when I was a fundamentalist evangelical Pentecostal Christian) invest their ‘faith’ and time, money, energy into “being holy”, browbeating others, and generally being a pain in the butt to those around them. And I admit that I was in that bunch. And then I realized what a waste it was.
thanks for writing this post.
Good analysis. I think that either message when communicated to someone who disagrees with it communicates “you’re wrong,” like you said. Of course, it is also interpreted in a number of interesting ways, as you described.
In that post that you linked to, about the Four Horsemen, you said, “Nowhere else, from my experience, does something like this happen. “I think you’re wrong” is not an insult or a personal offense… except in religion. I think this is a very important point.”
I think it happens all the time. People seem to take personal offense at everything. I’ve found it true regarding vegetarianism. All a vegetarian or vegan has to do is merely exist, and that sets some people off.
And another important, but often overlooked point is the age of the person involved. I think it’s quite common for people to become atheists (not to mention vegetarians) during their college or university years. At that age, you’ve been taught critical thinking, but yet you’re young enough to know that you still have a lot to learn, so you’re open to new ideas.
I was posting to a feminist board, and knowing that it’s pretty common for feminists to be vegetarians, I simply asked how many of the women on the board happened to be vegetarians. I got such vitriol for simply asking a question. I didn’t even say anything about it being wrong or immoral to eat animals. I simply asked who was vegetarian. And the most vitriol came from the older women, the ones in their 50’s and 60’s, and I think it’s because as we age, we tend to think we become wiser and more knowledgeable. We feel that we have a lot to offer the younger generations. We don’t want to admit that we have been doing something immoral for 5 or 6 decades. Also, people want to feel that they are good people deep down.
And I think the age thing comes into play with atheism. If someone is 40, 50, or even older, they don’t want to face the idea that they have been stupid enough to be duped for all that time. People not only think they are good deep down, but they think they are smart. Too smart to be conned. I think younger people are more likely to reject the beliefs they were taught as children, because they don’t have years and years of reinforcement.
Whether one believes in God or not is not their choice. Nothing is of anyone’s will. There is no such thing as choice/will. Whatever anyone believes is certain. Everything is fate. I do not believe in God. I think that it’s foolish. Logic rules me. Fate rules me. Have faith in this. It’s certain.
Blah Blah Blah
Of course ‘God’ exists… in the dictionary.
As does ‘zealous’, ‘inflammatory’, and ‘pretentious’.
Humanism?
Shallow ego-entertainment. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_mechanism)
Two cents
You have a really interesting blog, and I have put you on my list of blogs I follow through Bloglovin’.
I do believe in the existance of a God, but I really woudln’t ever interpret the Bible literally. It was written a long time ago, and humans make mistakes and things come up and get lost through the ages. Looking for a reply!