Vocal atheists are often asked (and sometimes simply accused) if they want to eliminate religion (sometimes we’re even accused of trying to eliminate believers, but those idiocies aren’t even worth a reply). Of course, I can’t speak for any other atheist but myself (that’s one of the beauties of being an atheist: no dogma), but, in my case, yes, I’d like religion to disappear, because it’s useless and and a waste of time at best, and, more often, a tremendous source of irrationality, ignorance, division, suffering and death. (if I need to tell you that this doesn’t involve killing or harming a single believer, I’m very disappointed in you.)
But what about the “harmless” religions?
PZ Myers put it wonderfully:
As for the charge that these New Atheists are unable to tolerate a harmless religion, and that their goal is the elimination of the enemy, that’s complete nonsense. We want to eliminate them in the same sense that we want to eliminate illiteracy; we will educate, we will talk, we will stand up for our ideas.
(the underlining is mine)
It’s a beautiful comparison, in my opinion. I had thought about comparing a non-harmless religion to a disease of the mind (you can’t possibly claim Fred Phelps or the 9/11 hijackers is/were “healthy”, can you?), but I now think that any religion is at least like illiteracy; that is, it’s not the fault of the believers/illiterate, but it limits them, limits their choices, their abilities, and their future, and they would surely be better off without it.
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Excellent post. PZ’s quote is a great one, and you’ve perfectly captured how I feel about the subject. I find that there is a vast difference between wanting to see the end of religion and wanting to bring it about through draconian means. Like PZ said, I want to end it in the way I want to end illiteracy, infant mortality, child abuse, and a whole host of social ills.
Thanks.
It’s funny… if you say you want to end illiteracy, people will immediately think that you plan an education campaign, and will praise you for it.
If you say you want to end religion, however, they’ll believe you want to kill or at least forcefully “un-convert” believers, and be shocked, or even scared. When, in fact, your intentions are the same… to educate people.
Obviously I am biased, but I don’t think that Buddhism limits people in the way that you mean. My practice as a Buddhist is about awakening to the world around me – accepting things as they are rather than the way I want them or think they should be. Even the Dalai Lama has said that if modern science finds something that contradicts a Buddhist teaching than Buddhism should change to accommodate that, otherwise that would be denying reality as it is. Do all Buddhists agree with this? Do all atheists agree with everything you say? Probably not – but that is the Buddhism I have been taught and that I practice.
Of course, there are those that view Buddhism as more of a philosophy than a religion. Of course, there are those idiots who think Buddhists believe in Buddha as a god as well.
Just my two cents.
Jim,
long time no see.
I have no problem with Buddhism as a philosophy (from what little I know of it), though there are several branches of it, with different beliefs, and they can’t probably be judged as a whole. My problem is when there are supernatural claims, such as reincarnation, or claims or rules that aren’t justified by evidence.
Still, I make it one of my policies never to criticize without knowledge, so I won’t criticize Buddhism until I really learn about it (or at least a couple of its versions; Zen Buddhism, maybe, because of my interest in Japanese culture).
This suggests to me a slightly related topic for a future post (which will be part 4 of my series on the “Four Horsemen of Atheism” discussion): what about a religion or philosophy that makes some claims which are untrue or at least unsubstantiated, but which has “good” rules and makes people act “better”? (many claim this about, say, Christianity, and I beg to differ) Should such a thing be criticized? Encouraged? Food for thought… and for the next post.
PZ Myers on Eliminating Religion…
Okay, so PZ Myers is one of my heroes in the atheist blogosphere. But he’s more than that. He is one smart dude who certainly has a way with words and frequently inspires….
great post;i also think that any religion that has a god in it as a supreme ruler and judge is just another story made up by “grown up kids”.