Archive for February, 2008

More on the Dawkins / Hitchens / Dennett / Harris discussion (part 1): belief and emotional investment

Friday, February 29th, 2008

fourhoursemen2 

As a follow-up to my previous post on the subject, I want to share — and comment on — some of the best parts (IMO) of the conversation between the “four hoursemen”, which I still recommend that you watch in full (just click on the image above and download the files, if possible, or at least follow the YouTube links). Since there’s too much to comment on, I’ll divide it among several posts; here’s the first.

Daniel Dennett: Yeah, well I’m amused by it [the accusation that they are "strident or arrogant, or vitriolic, or shrill"], because I went out of my way in my book to address reasonable religious people. And I test-flew the draft with groups of students who were deeply religious. And indeed, the first draft incurred some real anguish. And so I made adjustments and made adjustments. And it didn’t do any good in the end because I still got hammered for being for being rude and aggressive. And I came to realize that it’s a no-win situation. It’s a mug’s game. The religions have contrived to make it impossible to disagree with them critically without being rude.

Nowhere else, from my experience, does something like this happen. “I think you’re wrong” is not an insult or a personal offense… except in religion. I think this is a very important point.

And why is it? Harris and Dennett provide the answer:

Sam Harris: I mean, this is just not the way rational minds operate when they’re really trying to get at what’s true in the world. And religions purport to be representing reality. And yet there’s this peevish, tribal, and ultimately dangerous, reflexive response to having these ideas challenged. I think we’re pointing to the total liability of that fact.

Dennett: Well, and too, there’s no polite way to say to somebody…

Harris: You’ve wasted your life!

Dennett: …do you realize you’ve wasted your life? Do you realize that you’ve just devoted all your efforts and all your goods to the glorification of something which is just a myth? Or have you ever considered – even if you say have you even considered the possibility that maybe you’ve wasted your life on this? There’s no inoffensive way of saying that. But we do have to say it, because they should jolly well consider it. Same as we do about our own lives.

Again, this is pretty important. It’s something I’ve noticed when discussing these matters with less skeptical friends (and it wasn’t even about religion, but astrology, mysticism, “energies”, and so on): if you refute their arguments one by one, they invariably reach a point where they’re visibly emotionally affected — almost near panic — and, if you keep going on past that point, they get really offended, angry, and aggressive with you. Why? Because their beliefs aren’t just a matter of whether the methods (e.g. prayer, horoscopes, etc.) “work” or whether the propositions are “true”. These people have an emotional investment in those beliefs. A huge one. And, in a way, you’re telling them that they may have lost all of that investment. That, as Harris and Dennett say, they’ve wasted their life. A form of the sunk cost fallacy comes into effect — deep inside, the person may realize that their belief isn’t based on reality, but they’ve invested too much time, energy, and emotions into it to ever admit the fact. And anyone who insists on making them “look hard” at it is “hurting” them, is attacking them personally, is “offending” them.

I guess that, in many cases, there’s nothing that can be done. It takes a special kind of courage and honesty to admit something like “I’ve wasted most of my life”. In many cases, it’s probably hopeless to try to get them do do it — and it can cost friendships, in fact.

More Christian double standards

Friday, February 29th, 2008

ByTheBook38-small

Source: By The Book Comics

I won’t insult your intelligence by talking about what’s wrong with this picture… :)

2 Hours with Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Dan Dennett and Christopher Hitchens

Thursday, February 28th, 2008

This is not very new (it’s from December 2007), but I only found the time today to watch it, and I found it intellectually delicious. Four brilliant minds (who don’t agree in many ways) having a fascinating (and polite!) discussion about religion and atheism.

Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris, Dan Dennett and Christopher Hitchens

Please, watch it. Really. Just click on the image above. I suggest downloading the files first and watching them in the best available quality, instead of using YouTube.

For believers, it may surprise you to find out how “strident”, “shrill” and “fanatical” these four bestselling authors really are. :)

For non-believers, don’t pass this by because you expect it be just “preaching to the choir”. As I said, the discussion is, in my opinion, fascinating and absolutely stimulating, and it will sure get you thinking about stuff you hadn’t considered before.

More on the efficacy of prayer

Wednesday, February 27th, 2008

Like I wrote before, Christians don’t pray for truly impossible things, because, I’d guess, deep inside they know that “magic doesn’t work”. They pray for possible things, and, if they happen, they feel good about it, call it a “miracle”, feel blessed (after all, the supreme being of the universe just took a personal interest in them!), and it reinforces their faith. When they don’t happen, either “God has a plan”, or, most likely, they simply forget about it. It’s called “counting the hits and ignoring the misses”.

But… what about the people of other religions? And what about atheists? Why isn’t their life absolutely miserable (or at least noticeably worse), since they don’t have a deity taking care of them and answering their prayers?

Consider this likely example: a Christian comes down with a flu. He prays to God to get better, and, after a couple of days, he does. “Thank you, God, for healing me! Praise the Lord!”, and so on.

Meanwhile, the atheist next door gets the flu at the same time, and, coincidence of coincidences, also gets better at the same time.

What happened here? Did God require prayer and faith from the believer, but not from the atheist?

Or is the believer just projecting supernatural explanations onto something that happened naturally?

If prayer worked, if God intervened due to prayer, then either unbelievers would remain sick forever, or, at least, believers would get better much more quickly. I would say that a miracle — a direct intervention by the omnipotent creator of the universe — should be pretty easy to distinguish from a natural occurrence. Yet we don’t see the impossible happening to believers. We don’t even see the beneficial possible happen sooner, or more often. In fact, everything happens just like it would if…

…there was no God at all.

A shocking new way of answering Republican mudslinging

Tuesday, February 26th, 2008

Imagine a likely situation: a conservative accuses a liberal politician of “lack of patriotism” because, of all things, he wasn’t wearing an American flag lapel pin.

Which of the following responses by the liberal do you think more likely?

  1. “Wait, I’m patriotic too!” <rushes to buy a lapel pin>
  2. “A party that presided over a war in which our troops did not get the body armor they needed, or were sending troops over who were untrained because of poor planning, or are not fulfilling the veterans’ benefits that these troops need when they come home, or are undermining our Constitution with warrantless wiretaps that are unnecessary? That is a debate I am very happy to have. We’ll see what the American people think is the true definition of patriotism.”

The first answer is, of course, the more likely one. It’s what Democrats have been doing since 2001. Every time Dems criticized the Bush administration, the latter knew it could stop the former in their tracks and make them scurry back to their holes simply by questioning their “patriotism”. How many times have you heard “Why do you hate America?”… and how many times did you see such a dishonest, disgusting question (much like “when did you stop beating your wife?”) actually work?

This is why Obama’s reply (which number 2, above, is) is so impressive. Not because it was genius, or because it took a lot of guts, but simply because it was virtually unprecedented in this decade. When have Democrats last stood up to Republican bullies? I don’t even remember. When did a Democrat last refuse to accept such warped definitions? What is “patriotism”, anyway: defending the Constitution and the American ideals… or wearing a flag and calling those who don’t “unpatriotic” and “un-American”?

Republicans — especially the neocon thugs — love to redefine the meanings of words to their advantage, and, sadly, Democrats tend to fall for it. Oppose the Patriot Act? You’re unpatriotic — never mind that it’s them who’re violating the Constitution of the United States. Oppose the so-called “War on Terror”? You’re a terrorist-supporter. Disagree with the Iraq war? You hate the military and America. Oppose taking away liberties in the name of “freedom”? You hate freedom.

And nobody ever calls them on it. Until now, apparently.

I’m betting every other Democrat politician is in shock right now… “you mean we don’t have to accept their definitions and their rules?!? I’ve never thought of that before…” :)

Thanks to: Dangerous Intersection, Salon.com

Hey, if it "works"…

Tuesday, February 26th, 2008

cectic020

Source: Cectic

"God helps those who help themselves"

Tuesday, February 26th, 2008

I’m sure you have heard this post’s title before.

The idea is that, supposedly, praying for things to happen, for the object of your desire to “fall in your lap” by magic doesn’t work. Instead, you’re supposed to try, and try hard, and then God will help you.

While I believe that telling people to, pardon the expression, “move their asses”, instead of just sitting in prayer and waiting for things to happen, is a good piece of advice, I wonder why more people — including believers — don’t notice the obvious dishonesty implicit in it.

First, there’s the unconscious realization of a fact: miracles don’t happen. At least true miracles in the “magical” sense. Much like the way people pray for a disease to “get better” (which can happen) but not for a limb to grow back (which can’t), most believers, these days, when they think of miracles, they think about approximations of Jesus’ (Caucasian!) face in slices of pizza, finding a lucky parking space in a crowded place, or someone changing their mind to their advantage. Not “biblical-like” miracles. So, since they know “magic” doesn’t work, they teach that you have to try, and only then will God help you. In other words, first you make sure it’s naturally possible, and only then do you ask God — who is supposedly all-powerful — for it.

Second, this is an utterly unfair double standard. If you succeed, it was God’s doing. Praise the Lord! If you fail, however, either “God has a better plan”, or, more often, it was simply your fault. God automatically gets the credit for any successes, but not the blame for any failures. Like always, anyone would spot the obvious unfairness of it… if we weren’t talking about religion, a subject that prevents most otherwise rational people from spotting parallels, contradictions, or errors of logic in general. (we’re talking about minds, after all, that find no problem in the “God exists because the Bible says so; the Bible is true because it’s the word of God” statement…)

Obama on religion

Thursday, February 21st, 2008

[...] given the increasing diversity of America’s population, the dangers of sectarianism have never been greater. Whatever we once were, we are no longer just a Christian nation; we are also a Jewish nation, a Muslim nation, a Buddhist nation, a Hindu nation, and a nation of nonbelievers.

And even if we did have only Christians in our midst, if we expelled every non-Christian from the United States of America, whose Christianity would we teach in the schools? Would we go with James Dobson’s, or Al Sharpton’s? Which passages of Scripture should guide our public policy? Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is ok and that eating shellfish is abomination? How about Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith? Or should we just stick to the Sermon on the Mount – a passage that is so radical that it’s doubtful that our own Defense Department would survive its application? So before we get carried away, let’s read our bibles. Folks haven’t been reading their bibles.

This brings me to my second point. Democracy demands that the religiously motivated translate their concerns into universal, rather than religion-specific, values. It requires that their proposals be subject to argument, and amenable to reason. I may be opposed to abortion for religious reasons, but if I seek to pass a law banning the practice, I cannot simply point to the teachings of my church or evoke God’s will. I have to explain why abortion violates some principle that is accessible to people of all faiths, including those with no faith at all.

Now this is going to be difficult for some who believe in the inerrancy of the Bible, as many evangelicals do. But in a pluralistic democracy, we have no choice. Politics depends on our ability to persuade each other of common aims based on a common reality. It involves the compromise, the art of what’s possible. At some fundamental level, religion does not allow for compromise. It’s the art of the impossible. If God has spoken, then followers are expected to live up to God’s edicts, regardless of the consequences. To base one’s life on such uncompromising commitments may be sublime, but to base our policy making on such commitments would be a dangerous thing. And if you doubt that, let me give you an example.

We all know the story of Abraham and Isaac. Abraham is ordered by God to offer up his only son, and without argument, he takes Isaac to the mountaintop, binds him to an altar, and raises his knife, prepared to act as God has commanded.

Of course, in the end God sends down an angel to intercede at the very last minute, and Abraham passes God’s test of devotion.

But it’s fair to say that if any of us leaving this church saw Abraham on a roof of a building raising his knife, we would, at the very least, call the police and expect the Department of Children and Family Services to take Isaac away from Abraham.

Source: ‘Call to Renewal’ Keynote Address, 2006

More than good enough for me. Pity I’m not American, or I would, for the first time in my life, vote for a guy and be proud of it. (I’m assuming he’ll beat Hillary, by the way, which seems increasingly likely, according to the latest results.)

Contrast this with Mike “rewrite the Constitution so it conforms to the Bible” Huckabee, Mitt “secularism is a religion” Romney (yes, I realize he’s out), or John “Roe v. Wade should be overturned” McCain.

(To be fair, McCain seems to be by far the lesser evil amongst Republicans (which admittedly isn’t saying much, given who his current main opponent is), and would certainly be an improvement over Bush… but, then again, who wouldn’t? :) Unless an oddly convenient “terrorist” attack allows Bush to institute martial law and remain in power, things are sure to improve — not just for the U.S., but for the entire world — after November, regardless who wins the election.)

EDIT: removed the bold font emphasis on the original text. Sorry about that. ;)

Is Christianity to blame for Bible-inspired sexism?

Friday, February 15th, 2008

Seen on Friendly Atheist: a female referee was forbidden to ref a boys’ high school basketball game because it would mean putting her in a position of authority over males. Which, according to the Bible, is a big no-no.

To condemn this as bigoted and repulsive would be redundant, since others — even some Christians — have already done so. Therefore, I’ll address this question: is Christianity to blame for this, considering that most Christians don’t actually agree with such first-century bigoted “morals”?

I believe that, yes, Christianity is to blame.

Consider the facts:

  1. the Bible includes that passage. And it’s in the New Testament, after Jesus, so one can’t use the old “oh, that’s in the OT, Jesus changed all the rules” excuse which allows Christians to ignore the prohibition on eating shrimp or wearing mixed fabric, but to believe homosexuality is still an “abomination”.
  2. many denominations, and therefore many believers, believe (and teach) that the Bible is 100% true, and the literal word of God. (think about why they refuse to accept the fact of evolution: it’s not because it disproves God (it doesn’t), but because it means that Genesis isn’t literally true.)

Now, Christians could have changed the Bible. It’s not like they didn’t do it often in the first couple of centuries after Jesus, after all. Or they could have left that passage in there, but with a warning that it corresponds to Paul’s bigotry, not to what God actually wants. More liberal church leaders could actually denounce that passage as unjust and incompatible with a “god of love”. Or, like some other denominations do, simply accept that the Bible had many authors, many of its parts are parables or myths, and it was a product of its time, not to mention that it was edited often in the beginning, so it’s quite possible that someone inserted his own beliefs and agenda in it — which at the time would almost surely include bigotry.

But no. They still insist that the Bible is the literal word of God, 100% accurate, and so on. Which means God is a sexist bigot. And they’re OK with that.

If Christianity says “this book is 100% true”, and that book includes sexism, then Christianity is sexist, and is to blame for the sexism it causes.

90 day Jane

Tuesday, February 12th, 2008

Like Hemant and Shnakepup, I am convinced that the latest idiocy, “90 day Jane“, is nothing but another dishonest attempt by the religious to fight the “rise of eeeeevil atheism”.

Consider her description:

I am going to kill myself in 90 days. What else should i say? This blog is not a cry for help or even to get attention. It’s simply a public record of my last 90 days in existence. I’m not depressed and nothing extremely horrible has lead me to this decision. But, does it really have to? I mean, as an atheist I feel life has no greater purpose. My generation has had no great depression, no great war and our biggest obstacle is beating Halo 3.

“… as an atheist I feel life has no greater purpose”? Gee, that sounds just like what theists love to say about atheists… and what atheists either don’t say, or say literally; in other words, the lack of a “greater” purpose just means that we don’t have someone telling us what to do, so we have to (responsibility! scary!) decide for ourselves, come up with a purpose on our own.

Quoting Shnakepup:

Expect “Jane” to start laying the nihilism and hedonism on thick, all the while spouting off about how pointless it all is. Then, closer to the due date, we’ll see more and more posts featuring Jane reconsidering her godless, wasteful existence , and pondering if maybe there’s something more. Cue religious friend who sets her straight on the lie of atheism, and who tells her all the church has to offer in it’s place. Instead of killing herself on Day 90, we’ll see her changing her mind and deciding to live her life with Jesus! Warm fuzzy music plays and everybody learns a valuable lesson.

Indeed. Now, I wonder… as an atheist, I would never do something like this (say, “faking” a deconversion). Why? Because it would be dishonest, and the same love of truth that makes me an atheist prevents me from even considering something like this. The belief in “saving souls” for brownie points in heaven, even if you have to cheat, lie, and hurt people to do it, is, apparently, something very typical in evangelical Christianity.

EDIT: it was just an experiment, after all. Either that, or they aborted it because they can’t follow their plan to talk about the emptiness of atheism for 3 months and then “find Jesus” on day 90, because we were on to them on day 4. Nothing to see here, folks.