Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee?
I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies.
- Psalm 139:21-22 (King James Version)
No, wait! I’m not going to use those verses in the way you are probably thinking (the Bible incites hatred, etc.).
That would be too easy. 
Instead, I’ll address the “them… that hate thee” part. As this post’s title says, does anyone actually hate God (”God” meaning, here, the Judeo-Christian one)?
Now, theists are fond of saying that atheists hate God (which a simply dictionary definition would correct — hello!? we don’t believe there is one!?), or that we know, deep inside, that God exists, but are too arrogant to submit (which is actually insulting — how would they like to be told that they don’t really believe in their God, but enjoy too much being seen as “highly moral”?), but I’m not talking about those obvious errors. No, I’m talking about Really. Hating. God.
That concept presupposes that one does believe in God (and, again, I’m talking about the monotheistic, all-powerful Judeo-Christian creator deity people worship and pray to, not about any form of deism or pantheism), but, somehow, for some reason, hates him.
Does that make any sense? I find that very contradictory, not to mention potentially suicidal: so you believe that this omnipotent being is holding all the cards, can do whatever he pleases with you, including damning you for eternity… but he just wants to be loved, worshipped and believed in… you do believe he exists, and yet you hate him?
Now, my question, both to atheists and to those without the “a”… do you think that there are actually people like that? That someone, out there, actually “hates God”?
Thinking about it, I can imagine a few possibilities. A believer who gets the short end of the stick, so to say, might temporarily hate and curse God for the current injustice — without disbelieving for an instant. But that would probably pass soon, and he’d feel guilty and ashamed afterwards.
The only other possibility I can imagine is a Satanist — not a member of LaVey’s “Church of Satan”, who wouldn’t actually believe in God (or Satan) as entities, or a Black Metal fan, or an atheist who enjoyed annoying believers. No, a real Satanist, who believed God and the Devil were real, but somehow identified more with ol’ Lucifer than with Yahweh, and chose the former’s side. Of course, unless that person believed the Bible to be his enemy’s “propaganda”, he’d know that his side was destined to lose… but, who knows, maybe some people are like that.
To conclude: I’ve never heard someone say anything like “I believe in God, but I hate him”. But I’d like to hear your thoughts. Have you ever met or known of someone like that?
EDIT: and, please, no semantic games, such as “everyone who does X hates God”. I’m talking about conscious belief and hatred.
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I’ve always taken the view, at least for the Christian God, that if it did exist, I would hate it. If you’re an all powerful being, why would you make it “law” that everyone has to worship you? I hate needy, self-obsessed people, ergo, I hate the Christian God (as a fictional character).
Simon,
You should really talk to someone that knows their theology before you go making opinions like this. Your post makes it obvious that you have a lack of fundamental Christian beliefs. Don’t feel bad though, many Christians do also.
Pedro,
Even if we move out of the time-context for the psalm (entering new & pagan countries I suspect) I believe there are those that hate God by their actions if not by their emotion. As you said, I also believe, there are many, many, many people that have been hurt by the church and have turned that anger toward God instead of the stupid human(s) that hurt them.
It’s impossible to hate something that doesn’t exist.
However, I object so strongly even to the concept - you might call that hate.
If the God of the Bible existed as depicted there, I certainly would hate him.
Worship me or spend eternity in Hell? That’s supposed to be love? I don’t bow down
to tyrants on threat of torture. Infinite threats don’t change the deal.
And No Way, I’ve heard your argument too many times. It’s a combination of “you’re arguing against unsophisticated theology” and the No True Scotsman fallacy. I’ve read the bible, cover to cover. Twice. And bits and pieces many more times than that. For the purpose of the present argument, let’s posit the existence of a God something like the one depicted in the Bible.
You’re suggesting that the words in the bible CANNOT be understood by an ordinary intelligent human like myself, and that to understand it I have to get some authority to tell me what it /really/ means. So you’re actually suggesting that God is so incompetent he can’t even inspire something that can be understood from multiple readings. If the Bible is in fact God’s word, he can choose to make himself understood. If God can be understood, I’ve read the bible and reject him as plainly evil. If God cannot readily be understood, I reject him as deliberately incomprehensible, and I refuse to submit to any other human’s interpretation either, because they claim they posses special insight not available to ordinary people - without proof that they possess it, nor argument as to why they should possess it (that doesn’t simply fall back on “I’m special and you’re not”). Where does the bible say I need you to tell me how to understand the bible?
Simon is correct, the God depicted in the bible is on its face, needy and self obsessed. I’d go further and add murderous, genocidal, cruel, arbitrary, jealous, wicked, capricious, inconsistent and plainly self-contradictory. He’s running a holy protection racket, and I’m not buying. He has, by his own admission, murdered, or asked someone to kill for him, countless more people - many of them infants - than Satan (handful to Satan, hundreds of thousands to God) - often for ridiculous offenses /committed by other people/. If you’re going to claim I have to rely on some special study (i.e. someone else’s word about what it all means) to understand God, I’ll add “deliberately obtuse” to that list.
Maybe /you/ should try reading around a bit, No Way, so you’d see that your arguments are made all the time, and that they’re simply weak.
No, I’m not suggesting you didn’t understand the WORDS, I’m saying you missed the point/meaning. But, then again, maybe you don’t have ears to hear ;>
Yes, He could, apparently He didn’t ;>
How could I hate something that doesn’t exist. The human-invented, utterly contradictory, fictional character depicted in the Bible, and in Milton’s Paradise Lost for that matter, is thoroughly unlikeable, though.
I think that if most atheist hate anything, they hate religion-inspired bigotry, illogic, and smug, patronizing holier-than-though ‘preaching’ by your average religious polemicist.
No Way, that comment of yours was quite rude, and I don’t want that in my blog. Disagree with others as you will, tell them they’re wrong (though that is worthless without following it with “and here’s why…”), but don’t insult other commenters. Calling them ignorant (and without specifying HOW they’re wrong, and why), or the “good for you” sarcasm, are unwelcome.
With that out of the way… how is it that you claim to have special knowledge of the meaning of many parts of the Bible, knowledge of the “fact” that the words don’t mean what they say?
But that should really be a subject for another post, or for the forum, since it’s offtopic for this one. This one is about hating God (yet believing in him), not about whether he exists, or whether the Bible takes “special, and incredibly rare knowledge” to understand.
Of course there are people that hate God! Does fear of retribution stop people from hating dictators, parents, etc., even if they never express it out loud?
As a child I was raised to believe in the existence of God, though it didn’t take me long to realize, after reading the Bible and suffering through some unpleasant experiences, to realize that I hated him. I don’t mean a little conflicting moral values, or doubt of existence issues - I actively and fiercely HATED this being. I got in a good bit of trouble at one point when I announced in my Sunday school class that I would rather spend eternity burning in hell than spend one moment in heaven with such bastard. I later came to the conclusion that God didn’t exist, but at this period in time I was very steeped in the tradition that he Was, and that’s all there is to it.
This post leads me to believe that you either have a very limited imagination or don’t read/watch television/interact with people very much - it’s quite natural to me that many people from abusive or difficult backgrounds would hate God for doing what they believe he did to them, and I certainly know a few people in such a situation.
Osunale: your post would be much more convincing without the insults, especially when you obviously don’t know anything about me and my “limited imagination”. But it would have been even better if you had noticed this, in my original post:
So, yes, my imagination, limited though it may be
, was enough to imagine that possibility.
You may have a point, though, in a way. I thought about people hating God for a while, then “repenting” and begging forgiveness for their “sin”; I didn’t think about the possibility of someone hating God for a period of time during their deconversion. Mostly because, when I stopped believing, my feeling was not anger, but relief… but that’s a story for another time.
Pedro,
You are correct. I owe you an apology. My “hooray for you” comment simply meant that the number of times he read it did not matter so much as how and for what purpose he read it. But, I must say, I found his tone and attitude offensive also.
As for calling someone ignorant, I will try not to do it here again but I do not consider it rude. Rude would be saying someone is stupid, ignorant is simply misinformed. In fact I myself have been (and been called out on) being ignorant of things I have talked about many times.
Well, you study it under experts who have spent their lives trying to understand it, who also studied it under experts that ….
The words mean what they say. They just don’t say what most people think they do. Certainly you are familiar with the fact that even a relatively basic sentence can be understood in more than one way. It is even more so with a story of this complexity, spanning this long a time period, this far back into antiquity, written by a large number of different people, in a large number of volumes.
Jesus said, “let those with ears to hear …” You would not imply that he was saying there were a large number of people without ears would you? But that is what it implies literally. So, maybe sentences cannot be interpreted literally all the time.
As for the initial question: Perhaps people hate God the same way a child hates its parents when it is punished for doing wrong. Perhaps there is a reason he is called Father.
Now that intriques me. I would love to see that post sometime soon. After all, if I stopped believing the feeling would be the complete opposite of relief.
Hi Pedro,
I greatly enjoy your blog.
I apologize if my comments contributed to the derailing of the theme of your comment thread.
[I don't mind at all if No Way wants to call me ignorant, or any other names. I feel no discomfort from that at all, but I appreciate that you care, Pedro. I know No Way has no clue about how much scholarly research on the Bible I have read, so the accusation of ignorance from a position of ignorance is amusingly ironic. In any case, ignorant is far from the worst thing I have been called by Christans - I have learned to have a very thick skin.]
No Way: I read the Bible - when I was still a Christian, because I wanted to find out what it said. A few years later I read it again. I think it’s odd to suggest that my reasons for reading have any impact on the meaning of the text.
To get back to the topic:
A number of things contributed to my deconversion, Pedro. One was reading the Bible! It certainly weakened my ability to maintain belief (and the more I learned about the Bible, the more that continued). Another was some appalling behaviour of Christians to non-Christians (along with the biblical justifications that were given for it), and to other Christians of slightly different beliefs. In the long run it led to me being unable to continue to rationalize away some of the appalling things I had been rationalizing away for years, and I was no longer able to really maintain even a whisper of belief, but it took me several more years to really admit that I was an atheist. At no point did I ever hate God. I hated what people used the Bible to justify, but I moved from some belief to very weak belief to no belief without ever hating God. I have a very strong reaction to the motives of people that would make them perpetrate such a thing on others, partcularly on children, but that’s an opinion about people, not about God.
Pedro - good question. I don’t hate god, God does not exist, therefore it is impossible to hate him. However, I do have some hatred in my heart for God’s physical manifestation - organized religion and a few of the more colorful people who claim to work in Gods name.
Efrique,
Please understand, when I called you ignorant I did not mean stupid. It is obvious to me that you are far from that. That said, I must apologize for my comment.
This statement sums up my exact thoughts. The true message of the Bible is one of love and forgiveness. Yes, justice plays a role but the main attitude should be one of love and forgiveness.
I cannot stand the Christians that picket abortion clinics. They do not share the love of God but only their own anger.
I would much rather one person say “I believe what you are doing is wrong. If you would like to talk about, before or after, I am here for you because I care about you as a person and we all have our mistakes and faults.”
I am equally offended by “Christian” attacks on homosexuality. Do I think it is a sin? Yes, I do. That makes them a sinner. Well, I guess I can welcome them to the club because I’m a sinner also and my God’s compassion is big enough for both of us.
Those two statements are, in a nutshell, the primary message of Christ and the Bible. The main secondary message is probably this: “mistakes have consequences. God is your father and must enforce the rules and teach you to live well. After all, that is exactly what good fathers do”.
Those are the primary messages in my opinion. But, I would love one long blog spot where we can talk about it.
This seems to be a quite obvious answer to a loaded question. I, for one, truly have hatred in my heart for God. Ironically, my set of values and morals are set much higher than most other people (not just the religious). Some truths have been previously stated such as God being egomaniacal, selfish, etc. These are not my quarrels. Who would you rather follow into battle: a swim instructor or a war hero. My point is that God is not only an inexperienced and unfit leader, but an unmerciful one. What suffering has God gone through to align himself with humanity? His son died… but was returned. How great that must have been. 1/3 of his angels decided to rebel and he cast them away to bite at ash-bound apples. God always wins. There is no humanity within him. Now, I am not a Satanist; however, Lucifer truly is the child of humanity: emotions, conscience, acknowledgement of shortcomings, etc. Where is the merciful God? Where is the everloving God? I ran after religion for most of my life and what I found was unacceptable. I studied, I research, I tried. I made many valiant efforts, but all for naught. People do not love God, they fear his wrath. I do not speak from arrogance or ignorance, but as a questioning human being. If God works for you, I’m absolutely happy for you. If God on your side let’s you sleep and prevents you from killing, stealing, etc., then I truly, truly am happy for you… but I hate God. In my heart of hearts I hate him and I will be banished to a Hell of God’s choice when I speak with him at the Gates. God did not wrong me and no event caused me to feel the way I do. I hate him because that’s how I feel, which is the exact same reason why some of you love him.
I agree with salient. I have slowly developed a hatred for the “religion-inspired bigotry, illogic, and smug, patronizing holier-than-though ‘preaching’ by your average religious polemicist.” But I don’t hate any gods, not even the Christian one. I also don’t hate Santa.
Well, I certainly fucking hate god. I have done nothing to him and yet he fucks me over every day. FUCK YOU GOD, ID RATHER BE IN HELL THAN WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!
And yet you believe he exists? Weird…
I agree the most with Calden and Efrique, but i have always not being able to stand the constant contradictions. You can never sin…unless i say…either way you are forgiven. God is perfect, God doesn’t like sin. if God created everything then he created sin and therefore he’s not perfect, even so why doesn’t he just destroy it if he is so perfect.
Calder
“Some truths have been previously stated such as God being egomaniacal, selfish, etc.” Sorry, these truths are up for debate. I for one wholy disagree with them.
Also, I think you have a warped understanding of humanity. The things you identify as “humanity” I cannot possibly agree with. That said, I will pray for you, Ishkamina, and Hayden.
Hayden, from a Christian perspective we have all done wrong to God. That said, I feel empathy toward your suffering and wish only the best for you.
Ryan, The constant contradictions are by no means constant. I do understand why you would feel they are though.
I live with humans. I observe them. I observe that I have not met any atheist bigots. I have, however, met hundreds of christians filled with hate and judgment for anyone different than themselves.
I submit that I am an incredibly happy and emotionally stable person whose days are filled more with joy than anything else.
What exactly are you praying for? That I can be a miserable christian again? No, thanks. But it was nice of you to offer after passing judgment on my understanding of humanity. I guess that makes you a good christian.
I hate god, I want to kill him, I want to war heaven. I want to murder that piece of shit god and kick his ass off his throne and take his place. He’s a fucking fuck up of a “boss.” He deserves to be dethroned. FUCK GOD and fuck anyone here who tells me I’m delusional. I hate people on the net that have to go around educating people when they themselves KNOW SHIT. You follow your little books or what you heard, you know nothing about god. I don’t know either. If he does exist, in whatever form that is, or if there is just some creator, or descendants of that creator, and if they are just us and me then we all die. FUCK GOD, FUCK RELGION. Fuck IRAQ, fuck authority, FUCK THIS WORLD, I want to see it burn to ash.
I doubt it, hate requires its polar opposite, “love” to serve as a contrast. I don’t think its possible to be an atheist and hate God. God is only a word, what it implies means many things to many people so what your saying may make perfect sense in your head but seem completely delusional to me. Everywhere and nowhere - at the same time.
I hate God because he not made the world a sinful one, but allowed it to become one and he didnt die on the cross so we dont have to suffer. He died for sinners because we are all born with a sinful nature anyway! How can you argue against me if i’ve read many Christian answer books and see our church. I have a gender identity disorder and hate the fact that I am not normal. And I hate normal people anyway because all of God’s creation is a messed up disaster and sex is one of them. He might have given us free will but if he’s almighty he should have known that Lucifer would exalt himeself and become the devil and that he would deceive Adam & Eve. I DONT UNDERSTAND GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I agree with Calden. The very basis of Christianity is ridiculously unfair. We must all pay for Adam and Eve’s mistake. If God was as powerful as the Bible claims he is then he would have never made the mistake of creating lucifer in the first place. If he wants us to have free will, so be it, but why in the world did he give an angel free will to rebel and cause the existance of the most horrifying place in Creation.
The hilarious part of Christianity is that most Christians are hypocritical, lying, self-righteous, immoral pieces of garbage. Plenty of non-Christians live lives more representative of Christ than his so called following. Yet it’s all for naught. Your good actions can’t save you because God doesn’t care. He wants you to bow down and accept him as Lord. That’s the prerequisite.
Unfortunately, I have to pass. I will bow only to those who deserve it, not to petty tyrants who place belief above action. Sure, many of those who say “Father, Father” never knew Him. That doesn’t mean that plenty of good people won’t see Hell’s flames.
I acknowledge the existance of the Christian God and that I am his creation. I also hate this Father that I didn’t ask for and never wanted. I am a borderline theistic satanist. I say borderline because I don’t belong to any Satanic church or community, but I can certainly identify with someone like Satan. If it wasn’t for him tempting Adam and Eve, we wouldn’t have free will in the first place. I hope all you Christians thank him for that.
God can not find me.
Why would god create trillions of human beings? (Oh right, out of the goodness of his
big heart, bullshit-he needs our human experience in order to perfect) He may be perfect in wisdom, but not in “experiencing”. He learns and absorbs our negative experiences because he can’t experience it in heaven (heaven is all positive and goodness only) Once again were bamboosled……believing in Great O’l Santa Claus.
I wish I could love God, but the kind of world he allowed Earth to become also makes me hate him. I do believe he exists since Jesus did muricles unlike other religions who have no spiritual structure and scientists who have no proof. But even though the Almighty God knew of all good things that could have existed, he chooses this stupid excuse for a free will living world. I have deep deep depression in life and have a Gender Identity Disorder. I think God needs a satanic raise for when he thought of creating something as sick and guiltful as sex. I dont care how clean it was planned it has still binee ‘allowed’ and ‘tolerated’ by God and that is why we suffer the things of puberty, marriege, pregnancy, HIV’aids, homosexuality, rape and molestation. If you ask me God realy is too smart and almighty. Meaning he must be insanely evil. I have asked and asked and everyone looks at me like a satanist but they only judge what I say, they dont prove me wrong instead.
Okay, I now know that atleast even if God doesnt want to answer my non evil prayers just so he can have he’s stupid little perfect will (including tsunamies, earthquakes ect.) can go on but I think I am GOOD. And I think God is the EVIL one. I would never harm anyone nevermind give them the will to do so, because I am sensitive, God is pure harsh! Their is no one to prove me wrong so why would I be wrong?