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	<title>Comments on: Atheists in denial?</title>
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	<link>http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/</link>
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	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 21:49:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Powell, Obama and Muslims &#124; Way of the Mind</title>
		<link>http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-55882</link>
		<dc:creator>Powell, Obama and Muslims &#124; Way of the Mind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 10:29:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] since atheists are even more demonized than Muslims in the U.S.. I guess it’s the old “there are really no atheists, as deep inside everyone knows God exists” thing. Add [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] since atheists are even more demonized than Muslims in the U.S.. I guess it’s the old “there are really no atheists, as deep inside everyone knows God exists” thing. Add [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Robin Lionheart</title>
		<link>http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-34401</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin Lionheart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Dec 2007 22:10:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-34401</guid>
		<description>Deep down, you really know there's a Santa Claus, you just don't want to have to be good all the time.

Or maybe you're mad at Santa, is that it? You didn't get what you want one year, so you pretend he doesn't exist? You're not fooling anyone, you know. Everyone knows Santa exists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deep down, you really know there&#8217;s a Santa Claus, you just don&#8217;t want to have to be good all the time.</p>
<p>Or maybe you&#8217;re mad at Santa, is that it? You didn&#8217;t get what you want one year, so you pretend he doesn&#8217;t exist? You&#8217;re not fooling anyone, you know. Everyone knows Santa exists.</p>
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		<title>By: Does anyone ACTUALLY &#34;hate God&#34;? &#124; Way of the Mind</title>
		<link>http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-34052</link>
		<dc:creator>Does anyone ACTUALLY &#34;hate God&#34;? &#124; Way of the Mind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 00:26:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-34052</guid>
		<description>[...] dictionary definition would correct &#8212; hello!? we don&#8217;t believe there is one!?), or that we know, deep inside, that God exists, but are too arrogant to submit (which is actually insulting &#8212; how would they like to be told that they don&#8217;t really [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] dictionary definition would correct &#8212; hello!? we don&#8217;t believe there is one!?), or that we know, deep inside, that God exists, but are too arrogant to submit (which is actually insulting &#8212; how would they like to be told that they don&#8217;t really [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Ridger</title>
		<link>http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-33072</link>
		<dc:creator>The Ridger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 06:34:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-33072</guid>
		<description>Part of the problem, I believe, is the polysemous nature of the word "belief". Many theists think an atheist's "I don't believe in God" is similar to their own "I don't believe in [pre-marital sex/drinking/polygamy/you fill in the blank]" or, say, the Amish "not believing in technology". Of course those things all exist, so what does "not believing in" them mean? It means denying their usefulness or morality.

I find it useful to recast the whole question when it comes up. Depending on the context, I either say "Just as you don't believe in Shiva" or (if they're the kind that thinks someone else's god is really their own devil) "Belief doesn't come into to; I'm just not convinced of the existence of any gods". Those at least get us away from the "denial" that "not believing in" god often seems to reduce to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Part of the problem, I believe, is the polysemous nature of the word &#8220;belief&#8221;. Many theists think an atheist&#8217;s &#8220;I don&#8217;t believe in God&#8221; is similar to their own &#8220;I don&#8217;t believe in [pre-marital sex/drinking/polygamy/you fill in the blank]&#8221; or, say, the Amish &#8220;not believing in technology&#8221;. Of course those things all exist, so what does &#8220;not believing in&#8221; them mean? It means denying their usefulness or morality.</p>
<p>I find it useful to recast the whole question when it comes up. Depending on the context, I either say &#8220;Just as you don&#8217;t believe in Shiva&#8221; or (if they&#8217;re the kind that thinks someone else&#8217;s god is really their own devil) &#8220;Belief doesn&#8217;t come into to; I&#8217;m just not convinced of the existence of any gods&#8221;. Those at least get us away from the &#8220;denial&#8221; that &#8220;not believing in&#8221; god often seems to reduce to.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Haaz-Baroque</title>
		<link>http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-32845</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Haaz-Baroque</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 19:38:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-32845</guid>
		<description>"I’m not sure where it would come from but, well said."

Well, it doesn't really need to come from anywhere, does it? Evolutionarily speaking, it wouldn't take a great leap of intellect to come to the following conclusion: 

'hey, these other beings walking around... these other machines of flesh and bone and hair... they've got brains rattling around inside their skulls, too. I'll bet that they have dreams and wishes and feelings just like me! Since they're so much like me, it would probably be a good thing not to hurt them or kill them or steal from them. After all, I know I wouldn't like any of that, and being that they seem so much like me, I'll bet they wouldn't like it either.'

Plain ol' empathy, that's what keeps us responsible and moral. We've got advanced enough brains to imagine how other people must feel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’m not sure where it would come from but, well said.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, it doesn&#8217;t really need to come from anywhere, does it? Evolutionarily speaking, it wouldn&#8217;t take a great leap of intellect to come to the following conclusion: </p>
<p>&#8216;hey, these other beings walking around&#8230; these other machines of flesh and bone and hair&#8230; they&#8217;ve got brains rattling around inside their skulls, too. I&#8217;ll bet that they have dreams and wishes and feelings just like me! Since they&#8217;re so much like me, it would probably be a good thing not to hurt them or kill them or steal from them. After all, I know I wouldn&#8217;t like any of that, and being that they seem so much like me, I&#8217;ll bet they wouldn&#8217;t like it either.&#8217;</p>
<p>Plain ol&#8217; empathy, that&#8217;s what keeps us responsible and moral. We&#8217;ve got advanced enough brains to imagine how other people must feel.</p>
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		<title>By: Daryl</title>
		<link>http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-8776</link>
		<dc:creator>Daryl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2007 19:49:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-8776</guid>
		<description>TXStorm,

Well said.  I'm not sure where it would come from but, well said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TXStorm,</p>
<p>Well said.  I&#8217;m not sure where it would come from but, well said.</p>
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		<title>By: TXStorm</title>
		<link>http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-8771</link>
		<dc:creator>TXStorm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2007 19:29:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-8771</guid>
		<description>Well a simple respect for others would be a fine starting point for what sets priorities, etc. This would of course necessitate repecting others at a base level, such that one must abandon presumptions of superiority, omniscience, special private knowledge etc. Since these are the building blocks of religion, it means of course dropping religon as well which is a choice many are not willing to make.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well a simple respect for others would be a fine starting point for what sets priorities, etc. This would of course necessitate repecting others at a base level, such that one must abandon presumptions of superiority, omniscience, special private knowledge etc. Since these are the building blocks of religion, it means of course dropping religon as well which is a choice many are not willing to make.</p>
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		<title>By: Daryl</title>
		<link>http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-8764</link>
		<dc:creator>Daryl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2007 18:55:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-8764</guid>
		<description>I should hope not.  I certainly do hope it isn't the only thing.  Actually, for me it isn't about belief in an afterlife at all.  Think about priorities, personality traits, etc.  What would set those?  Where would that lead?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should hope not.  I certainly do hope it isn&#8217;t the only thing.  Actually, for me it isn&#8217;t about belief in an afterlife at all.  Think about priorities, personality traits, etc.  What would set those?  Where would that lead?</p>
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		<title>By: Pedro Timóteo</title>
		<link>http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-8725</link>
		<dc:creator>Pedro Timóteo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Feb 2007 13:11:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-8725</guid>
		<description>[quote comment="8651"]new.atheist,
Responsible for what?  If there is no God, and there is nothing to do after death, what is there to do in life?  Seems to me it would be whatever I want.
[/quote]

Is that the old "belief in the afterlife is the only thing keeping people from becoming monsters" argument?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[quote comment="8651"]new.atheist,<br />
Responsible for what?  If there is no God, and there is nothing to do after death, what is there to do in life?  Seems to me it would be whatever I want.<br />
[/quote]</p>
<p>Is that the old &#8220;belief in the afterlife is the only thing keeping people from becoming monsters&#8221; argument?</p>
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		<title>By: Daryl</title>
		<link>http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-8651</link>
		<dc:creator>Daryl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2007 19:19:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-8651</guid>
		<description>new.atheist,

Responsible for what?  If there is no God, and there is nothing to do after death, what is there to do in life?  Seems to me it would be whatever I want.

As for acknowledging the fact that there is no god.  Could you please prove it to me.  I mean, you state it as fact, you do have support for your facts don't you?

I think you mean, acknowledging your opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>new.atheist,</p>
<p>Responsible for what?  If there is no God, and there is nothing to do after death, what is there to do in life?  Seems to me it would be whatever I want.</p>
<p>As for acknowledging the fact that there is no god.  Could you please prove it to me.  I mean, you state it as fact, you do have support for your facts don&#8217;t you?</p>
<p>I think you mean, acknowledging your opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: new.atheist</title>
		<link>http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-8644</link>
		<dc:creator>new.atheist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Feb 2007 18:59:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-8644</guid>
		<description>I'm under the impression that acknowledging the fact that there is no god up there answering prayers and wishes, no god to forgive us, no god to sort out what's fair, pretty much means acknowledging we are responsible for our own actions. This scares the crap out of the majority of people out there. They don't want to be responsible (seen the rates of credit card debt in the U.S. lately?). 

People are also naturally scared to die, and so the idea that this is the only life you get, and there isn't anything to do when you're dead, also scares people. 

By saying there is no god, you are threatening their security and you are threatening their comfort in their belief that god will make it right (and that they don't need to lift a finger to help, they just have to pray some more). 

This is why atheism threatens them; it requires them to be responsible and take action.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m under the impression that acknowledging the fact that there is no god up there answering prayers and wishes, no god to forgive us, no god to sort out what&#8217;s fair, pretty much means acknowledging we are responsible for our own actions. This scares the crap out of the majority of people out there. They don&#8217;t want to be responsible (seen the rates of credit card debt in the U.S. lately?). </p>
<p>People are also naturally scared to die, and so the idea that this is the only life you get, and there isn&#8217;t anything to do when you&#8217;re dead, also scares people. </p>
<p>By saying there is no god, you are threatening their security and you are threatening their comfort in their belief that god will make it right (and that they don&#8217;t need to lift a finger to help, they just have to pray some more). </p>
<p>This is why atheism threatens them; it requires them to be responsible and take action.</p>
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		<title>By: Atheist Revolution</title>
		<link>http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-8443</link>
		<dc:creator>Atheist Revolution</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Feb 2007 11:40:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-8443</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;"You Atheists Are Just in Denial"...&lt;/strong&gt;

Pedro's recent post at Way of the Mind got me thinking about a criticism I periodically encounter around the blogosphere and in the comments here. According to many Christians, we atheists are simply in denial......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>&#8220;You Atheists Are Just in Denial&#8221;&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Pedro&#8217;s recent post at Way of the Mind got me thinking about a criticism I periodically encounter around the blogosphere and in the comments here. According to many Christians, we atheists are simply in denial&#8230;&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: DogET</title>
		<link>http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-8320</link>
		<dc:creator>DogET</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Feb 2007 03:17:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-8320</guid>
		<description>Most people form their own beliefs gradually. The cultural backgrounds infulence their religions. As it to me, a youngster living in China, a place where socialism and communism dominate, I become an atheist naturally, like most of my fellow buddys. It's not the despotism that makes us so.(in fact, most of us do not believe in the Marxism) It's because we are taught to animadvert on every view ponint in order to form our own ones. I've never think there is a God. Be tolerant. Let every one choose what to believe. The argument about whether there is a God makes little sense. As a old Chinese saying goes, if you believe, then there is one; if you don't believe, then there is none.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Most people form their own beliefs gradually. The cultural backgrounds infulence their religions. As it to me, a youngster living in China, a place where socialism and communism dominate, I become an atheist naturally, like most of my fellow buddys. It&#8217;s not the despotism that makes us so.(in fact, most of us do not believe in the Marxism) It&#8217;s because we are taught to animadvert on every view ponint in order to form our own ones. I&#8217;ve never think there is a God. Be tolerant. Let every one choose what to believe. The argument about whether there is a God makes little sense. As a old Chinese saying goes, if you believe, then there is one; if you don&#8217;t believe, then there is none.</p>
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		<title>By: Pedro Timóteo</title>
		<link>http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-8149</link>
		<dc:creator>Pedro Timóteo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Feb 2007 03:07:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-8149</guid>
		<description>micah: as you have shown in the past, you're not exactly a "typical Christian". Which is actually a compliment... :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>micah: as you have shown in the past, you&#8217;re not exactly a &#8220;typical Christian&#8221;. Which is actually a compliment&#8230; <img src='http://www.wayofthemind.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: micah</title>
		<link>http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-8119</link>
		<dc:creator>micah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Feb 2007 21:17:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-8119</guid>
		<description>[quote post="212"]Could it be that some believers refuse to believe real atheists exist because it’s a threat to their world view? That some of them do have doubts, but keep them hidden deep inside, because a) it’s a sin to doubt, which can lead to eternal damnation, and b) it may cause them to lose the respect of fellow believers? [/quote]

I have no trouble "believing in" atheists. (Irony, perhaps?)

I have no feeling that it is a sin to doubt. I openly express and/or acknowledge my doubts. I certainly have considered atheism, and respect it as a viewpoint. I don't believe there would be any punishment waiting for me if I were to become an atheist, thus my belief does not stem from fear.

I have no fear of losing the respect of other believers. I already gave that up when I disavowed church.

My belief rests on my opinion that Christianity is the most logically consistent worldview available.

-micah</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[quote post="212"]Could it be that some believers refuse to believe real atheists exist because it’s a threat to their world view? That some of them do have doubts, but keep them hidden deep inside, because a) it’s a sin to doubt, which can lead to eternal damnation, and b) it may cause them to lose the respect of fellow believers? [/quote]</p>
<p>I have no trouble &#8220;believing in&#8221; atheists. (Irony, perhaps?)</p>
<p>I have no feeling that it is a sin to doubt. I openly express and/or acknowledge my doubts. I certainly have considered atheism, and respect it as a viewpoint. I don&#8217;t believe there would be any punishment waiting for me if I were to become an atheist, thus my belief does not stem from fear.</p>
<p>I have no fear of losing the respect of other believers. I already gave that up when I disavowed church.</p>
<p>My belief rests on my opinion that Christianity is the most logically consistent worldview available.</p>
<p>-micah</p>
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		<title>By: Kren</title>
		<link>http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-8108</link>
		<dc:creator>Kren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Feb 2007 20:05:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-8108</guid>
		<description>I'm pretty sure that this comes from:
First- the assumption that God does exist, combined with 
Second- that whole, the opposite of like is ignoring, thing. 

Basically, hating someone doesn't help, you're actually spending your time and energy hating them and that means that somehow, you like them enough to do so.
Where ignoring them completely means that they have NO effect on you.

It's also got to do with denial in itself, which is funny, because when you deny the truth, it's usually because you can't handle it.
Denying that there IS a God would be so hard for someone someone who'se lived thier lives surrounded by religion. Yet, it would be much easier to deny the question of God itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m pretty sure that this comes from:<br />
First- the assumption that God does exist, combined with<br />
Second- that whole, the opposite of like is ignoring, thing. </p>
<p>Basically, hating someone doesn&#8217;t help, you&#8217;re actually spending your time and energy hating them and that means that somehow, you like them enough to do so.<br />
Where ignoring them completely means that they have NO effect on you.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s also got to do with denial in itself, which is funny, because when you deny the truth, it&#8217;s usually because you can&#8217;t handle it.<br />
Denying that there IS a God would be so hard for someone someone who&#8217;se lived thier lives surrounded by religion. Yet, it would be much easier to deny the question of God itself.</p>
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		<title>By: Daryl</title>
		<link>http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-8092</link>
		<dc:creator>Daryl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Feb 2007 14:19:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-8092</guid>
		<description>Pedro,

I completely agree with you.  Those words would appear to be from people who haven't thought it through very much at all and are very belittling.  Don't get me wrong, many atheists are very arrogant and belittling themselves.

Robert, I'll be praying for you ;&#62;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pedro,</p>
<p>I completely agree with you.  Those words would appear to be from people who haven&#8217;t thought it through very much at all and are very belittling.  Don&#8217;t get me wrong, many atheists are very arrogant and belittling themselves.</p>
<p>Robert, I&#8217;ll be praying for you ;&gt;</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-8091</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Feb 2007 14:16:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wayofthemind.org/2007/02/01/atheists-in-denial/#comment-8091</guid>
		<description>Good post... this happened to me just the other day... and is second on my list of annoying things... #1) is when they MUST have the last word, by leaving and saying "I'll be praying for you", "One day you'll change your mind", etc...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post&#8230; this happened to me just the other day&#8230; and is second on my list of annoying things&#8230; #1) is when they MUST have the last word, by leaving and saying &#8220;I&#8217;ll be praying for you&#8221;, &#8220;One day you&#8217;ll change your mind&#8221;, etc&#8230;</p>
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