Many believers say, or imply, that atheists are in denial. Supposedly, one is too arrogant to acknowledge a superior being, and/or doesn’t want rules in his his life, so he “chooses” atheism, though, deep inside, he (like everyone else) really “knows” God exists.
This is not a straw man: theists actually say this, and you can easily find examples of that position. But, if people would think even a little, they would find it absurd. I may not respect my incompetent ex-boss, but I’m not pretending to myself that he doesn’t exist! For the same reason, if I believed that there was a god (or gods), I might choose not to worship him, but to deny his existence? How absurd would that be? What would I gain by deluding myself that way?
And how insulting is a believer’s accusation that a person would ever do something so dishonest and idiotic? Would they like me to tell them that, deep inside, they know there is no God, but they say they believe in him for “popularity” reasons? (that is true of televangelists, of course, but not of believers in general)
Could it be that some believers refuse to believe real atheists exist because it’s a threat to their world view? That some of them do have doubts, but keep them hidden deep inside, because a) it’s a sin to doubt, which can lead to eternal damnation, and b) it may cause them to lose the respect of fellow believers? So, not only do they hide their doubt, but they convince themselves that nobody else really doubts. That the existence of God is obvious to everyone — and, so, atheists are lying, out of a weird sense of rebellion, perhaps. A honest non-believer, to them, would imply that someone, out there, has looked at the world, at the available evidence and decided that there probably is no God. This may cause the believer’s own doubt to surface, even if just for a moment, and that way lies damnation. Nah, there are really no atheists. They’re just a bunch of rebellious brats who don’t want any moral rules above them. Everyone knows there is a God.
This is just my pet “theory” about why so many believers “deny” our existence. I’m not saying that’s the explanation for every single case (though I find it difficult to imagine another). And it’s, also, a rant on my part, because I’ve seen this position too often, and I find it annoying. Again, how would believers enjoy being told that they don’t really believe, that they’re actually in denial about their non-belief?
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Good post… this happened to me just the other day… and is second on my list of annoying things… #1) is when they MUST have the last word, by leaving and saying “I’ll be praying for you”, “One day you’ll change your mind”, etc…
Pedro,
I completely agree with you. Those words would appear to be from people who haven’t thought it through very much at all and are very belittling. Don’t get me wrong, many atheists are very arrogant and belittling themselves.
Robert, I’ll be praying for you ;>
I’m pretty sure that this comes from:
First- the assumption that God does exist, combined with
Second- that whole, the opposite of like is ignoring, thing.
Basically, hating someone doesn’t help, you’re actually spending your time and energy hating them and that means that somehow, you like them enough to do so.
Where ignoring them completely means that they have NO effect on you.
It’s also got to do with denial in itself, which is funny, because when you deny the truth, it’s usually because you can’t handle it.
Denying that there IS a God would be so hard for someone someone who’se lived thier lives surrounded by religion. Yet, it would be much easier to deny the question of God itself.
[quote post="212"]Could it be that some believers refuse to believe real atheists exist because it’s a threat to their world view? That some of them do have doubts, but keep them hidden deep inside, because a) it’s a sin to doubt, which can lead to eternal damnation, and b) it may cause them to lose the respect of fellow believers? [/quote]
I have no trouble “believing in” atheists. (Irony, perhaps?)
I have no feeling that it is a sin to doubt. I openly express and/or acknowledge my doubts. I certainly have considered atheism, and respect it as a viewpoint. I don’t believe there would be any punishment waiting for me if I were to become an atheist, thus my belief does not stem from fear.
I have no fear of losing the respect of other believers. I already gave that up when I disavowed church.
My belief rests on my opinion that Christianity is the most logically consistent worldview available.
-micah
micah: as you have shown in the past, you’re not exactly a “typical Christian”. Which is actually a compliment…
Most people form their own beliefs gradually. The cultural backgrounds infulence their religions. As it to me, a youngster living in China, a place where socialism and communism dominate, I become an atheist naturally, like most of my fellow buddys. It’s not the despotism that makes us so.(in fact, most of us do not believe in the Marxism) It’s because we are taught to animadvert on every view ponint in order to form our own ones. I’ve never think there is a God. Be tolerant. Let every one choose what to believe. The argument about whether there is a God makes little sense. As a old Chinese saying goes, if you believe, then there is one; if you don’t believe, then there is none.
“You Atheists Are Just in Denial”…
Pedro’s recent post at Way of the Mind got me thinking about a criticism I periodically encounter around the blogosphere and in the comments here. According to many Christians, we atheists are simply in denial……
I’m under the impression that acknowledging the fact that there is no god up there answering prayers and wishes, no god to forgive us, no god to sort out what’s fair, pretty much means acknowledging we are responsible for our own actions. This scares the crap out of the majority of people out there. They don’t want to be responsible (seen the rates of credit card debt in the U.S. lately?).
People are also naturally scared to die, and so the idea that this is the only life you get, and there isn’t anything to do when you’re dead, also scares people.
By saying there is no god, you are threatening their security and you are threatening their comfort in their belief that god will make it right (and that they don’t need to lift a finger to help, they just have to pray some more).
This is why atheism threatens them; it requires them to be responsible and take action.
new.atheist,
Responsible for what? If there is no God, and there is nothing to do after death, what is there to do in life? Seems to me it would be whatever I want.
As for acknowledging the fact that there is no god. Could you please prove it to me. I mean, you state it as fact, you do have support for your facts don’t you?
I think you mean, acknowledging your opinion.
[quote comment="8651"]new.atheist,
Responsible for what? If there is no God, and there is nothing to do after death, what is there to do in life? Seems to me it would be whatever I want.
[/quote]
Is that the old “belief in the afterlife is the only thing keeping people from becoming monsters” argument?
I should hope not. I certainly do hope it isn’t the only thing. Actually, for me it isn’t about belief in an afterlife at all. Think about priorities, personality traits, etc. What would set those? Where would that lead?
Well a simple respect for others would be a fine starting point for what sets priorities, etc. This would of course necessitate repecting others at a base level, such that one must abandon presumptions of superiority, omniscience, special private knowledge etc. Since these are the building blocks of religion, it means of course dropping religon as well which is a choice many are not willing to make.
TXStorm,
Well said. I’m not sure where it would come from but, well said.
“I’m not sure where it would come from but, well said.”
Well, it doesn’t really need to come from anywhere, does it? Evolutionarily speaking, it wouldn’t take a great leap of intellect to come to the following conclusion:
‘hey, these other beings walking around… these other machines of flesh and bone and hair… they’ve got brains rattling around inside their skulls, too. I’ll bet that they have dreams and wishes and feelings just like me! Since they’re so much like me, it would probably be a good thing not to hurt them or kill them or steal from them. After all, I know I wouldn’t like any of that, and being that they seem so much like me, I’ll bet they wouldn’t like it either.’
Plain ol’ empathy, that’s what keeps us responsible and moral. We’ve got advanced enough brains to imagine how other people must feel.
Part of the problem, I believe, is the polysemous nature of the word “belief”. Many theists think an atheist’s “I don’t believe in God” is similar to their own “I don’t believe in [pre-marital sex/drinking/polygamy/you fill in the blank]” or, say, the Amish “not believing in technology”. Of course those things all exist, so what does “not believing in” them mean? It means denying their usefulness or morality.
I find it useful to recast the whole question when it comes up. Depending on the context, I either say “Just as you don’t believe in Shiva” or (if they’re the kind that thinks someone else’s god is really their own devil) “Belief doesn’t come into to; I’m just not convinced of the existence of any gods”. Those at least get us away from the “denial” that “not believing in” god often seems to reduce to.
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