I mean that every man woman and child is a door. When you open it and expect to see Jesus, you will. The door is never opened to convert, but to identify the presence of Christ in that person, so that you, not him will be saved…..saved from yourself and meeting the Lord in that person.

Evangelism, from “angel” means messenger of God. The message from God in you to every man woman and child is that the Holy Spirit of God is within the one you are talking to and it is your responsibility as the messenger to knock on that door and find Him, to find the best of that person, because the best of that person is the Presence of God. When you find Him, you are saved.

You are right that the message has been lost. Around here we call it diluted gospel that we see every day. The message always seems to be that Jesus is peddled to anyone who will listen as the fix-all to life’s problems. I seldom hear anything other than that. To me, it is only setting the seeker up to be disappointed when he is instructed to say a little prayer then he expects his life to change for the good. If that’s what you speak of too, I am in complete agreement with you.

I am seeing where our paths are not so far apart as I previously thought. Although I look from a litteral biblical perspective, I think we have shared more than shows on the surface as far as enlightenment.

This conversation has reminded me of a great lesson I received in my spirit one day. For some reason, I looked at someone differently than I normally do. I don’t know why but maybe I was being tutored on that day. Anyway, for some reason, I looked at someone and their condition really was offensive. I believe it was because they had obviously made careless choices that placed them in that condition. As quickly as the thought entered my mind, I heard, “Does God love you any more than he loves this man here”? Such a sweet feeling of compassion came over me, Marvin. I think this is what you speak of when you say to see the God in everyone. That was such a long time ago. Since then I have never felt difference for mankind no matter how dirty, rude, unstable or anything. I thank you for your piece of that puzzle and I thank God for the lesson that day.

It’s been real nice exchanging with you today. Thanks and I hope you are blessed this week.

John

What i have found, however, are those who say they are and they are Jesus-dependent. Rather than “doing what Jesus would do” they preach the rest of the lives telling people what Jesus can do for them, a self-centered Jesusolatry.

Jesus taught responsibililty and when he said: Follow me, he did not mean to hold on to his coattails and let Jesus be Jesus for them. The pulpit has screwed this up horribly!

I find in your statement here and in your attitude with me to be much more mature than most.
In that regard, you get it. If you are an evangelist, you should also demand it. doing what Jesus would do is a personal responsibility to be the best that you can be by seeing what Jesus saw in each of us, the best of God that could be seen. He saw the Father in others the way he wanted us to see the Father in Him. When we believe that “I and the Father are One, then we start acting like the Father and people will recognize the Father when they see us.

That is what is missing from the pulpit! That is the most important teaching of Jesus and it has been lost because the born again Christians just didn’t get it!

Thank you for your in-depth reply sir.

I can say that I have felt that was somewhat over a time in my life. I was not raised religious at all. At times I did not believe anything. Other times I believed somewhat like you. Yet others I believed in a works-based acceptance by God. Meaning that if I tried to do good to others, went to church x amount of times per week, and prayed that I was ok. Destiny would have it that I walked into a coffee house one nihgt for a mocha after a day of telling crude jokes with my co-workers. I was not living according to any faith at the time and had really just been living much like you say, being good.

That night as I entered the coffee house things were not quite right. I had never been in a coffee house like this. I was from out of state and there were 5 other men standing there talking. Turns out this was a Christian coffee house and as soon as I cought on, I WANTED OUT. I felt very much out of place. This was a Tuesday and I will never forget was Men’s prayer night. With every attempt to make an excuse and leave, these men would not shut up! I was trapped or so I felt. I was practically unable to speak and they insisted I stay and pray with them. I did.

During the time of prayer something supernatural happened. I felt the weight of my sinful life on top of me. I saw myself for who I was and I saw God for who he is. At that time, I might have been the prodigal son. I had found my bottom and I was coming back home except I had never really been home to be honest. I thought I was a good person but that nihgt I encountered God and saw just how unholy I was and how holy God was. That night I really got it and I stopped living according to my own power and gave God power in my life. When I stood up, I was a new person. I was remade and I thought differently. The next day when I went home I did not speak a word but my wife asked what was up with me, something was different. That is how changed I was Marvin. She could see a physical change in me without me speaking or saying a word of the event. I know this is the transformation that Jesus spoke of to Nicademus. How do I know, because I have experienced it. From that day I have never been the same. To belive and Jesus and to truly be reborn as a new creature are two very different places spiritually.

Before that time, I was never satisfied but since that time I have been completely at peace. No matter what comes my way, I am ok with it because I know God is in control.

The power of my experience has changed my life forever and is why I cannot turn to other ideas that do not set well in my spirit. I do not try and convince people to accept Jesus but to strive to reach the supernatural transformation that is being born again. Once that has happened, we need no explaination from anyone else because the truth will have been revealed to us already of who we are. We will have a great peace in our lives because we will no longer be searching or have a knowledge that something is missing.

John

i believe that he caused his own death, predicted it, then turn the tables over and made it come true. He desecrated a temple full of crooked priests, exposed their ruse to rip off the poor by making them pay temple tax every time they sinned, The pharisees had to get rid of him if they wanted to control the people.

Jesus accomplished this by being educated, first as a Rabbi, adopting the role of the Old Testament Messiah who was to come, thus made it happen.

His objective was to free God’s people from the Temple’s govenment. When he was ready to do that, he had established himself in only one year and a half by teaching service to one another rather than paying to higher authorities.

The 12 he picked were of the House and Lineage of David to carry on his work once he was crucified.

He believed that His sacrifice would allow him to be resurrected in the hearts of mankind and all the rotten past would be over and mankind would then build the Kingdom of God together, free indeed.

He was saving his people from them, not from some l8th century Inferno because of their sins.

History screwed the story up, got people scared to death they were going to hell in a handbasket, then came up with saving to mean to be saved from hellfire and brimstone by accepting Jesus as the Saviour of the world.

Truth is that nobody needed to be saved from sin by an unconditionally loving God, as he taught the poor with the parable of the prodigal son. God always loves us and always will and will never send us to everlasting punishment because we did not arrive at the threshold of our understandaing of his great love before we took our last breath on earth. Life is eternal and God is always loving us and will be there forever as we progressively learn just how loving and generous He always is.

So, I teach that the fear of God is over, that to follow him is to be in sync with the way He created us. If you strive to do that, you will be much happier than if you “fight against the grain.”

He made us perfect, and with the free will to learn that, so that we don’t keep trying to be “beside ourselves” but instead, acting like true children of God, in touch with His Holy Spirit which is always within us.

I preach that we miss the best of one another when we fail to see the Christ within each other, always there. When you seek out the best in one another, you find the Christ that you may have never realized was there.

That is a better way to teach, then to teach that we are all “Sinners in the hands of an Angry God (Old famous sermon title, remember?).

Why do you purposly leave Jesus out? What exactly is you belief concerning Jesus. I don’t think we ever discussed it.

“Yes, Jews memorized scriptures and they still do. So important were the scriptures that committing them to memory was of utmost importance from early childhood. That does not also mean that the Holy scriptures were not recorded They were dilligently and accurately recorded and sustained.”

John: If that were true, those working for King James would not have found two different people killing Goliath the Hittite, whose shew was like a weaver’s beam,” The King wanted to keep both stories, so he told them to put in the one with Elhanan, “the son of” and be sure to put it in italics to show that it was not part of the original duplicate story.

His sense of accurracy was to make sure that he did not leave both stories out. Now, we have two guys killing the same man and you wish to rationalize it because you do not want to accept the fact that David was the story handed down through the J History, from Judah and had a name for God, which was Jehovah, from Yahweh,

and Elhanan came from the E History, from which their name for God was Elohim and then they put their own hero’s name to the story, which was Elhanan.

Another example is the Elisha and Elijah accounts, double narratives. To makea them both valid, one guy places his mantle on the other one, after that other one matches all the miracles of the first one. Actually, they were the same story, each handed down from two different tribes. One tribe could not pronounce Elijah in Hebrew correctly and that is how we got Elisha. When recorded, the determination to be accurate would not allow those putting in the story, to leave the other one out, so they were combined with the rationalization of the mantle scene.

There are many of these double narratives, sometimes triple, as with Genesis 2:4b on is a separate creation story than Genb 1 to 2:4a. Both from the story of the Flood of Gilgamesh
http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2004/0329gilgamesh.asp, the older account and not in the Bible, and with a different name for God, by the way.

The story in Gen 12, 20, and 26, all the same story. first one: Abran and Sarai. Second one: Abraham and Sarah. keep them both with the verse: “And so God changed Abram’s name to Abraham.” Third one: Isaac and Rebeccah.

All three stories tell of the two going down into the city of Gerar and telling the same King Abimelech that the girl is the sister of the boy, “so that things will go well with us” while we are in town. Abimelech then pays all three couples off because of his sin when he finds out.

No, he paid off only one couple and the story was handed down and developed into three separate accounts and was preserved because they were already classified as holy scriptures.
Now, which one was accurate? Triple narrative. The king was not so dumb as to fall for the same ruse three times!

Of course there were numerous other writings just as there are contemporary writings as well. To follow anything that is contrary to what Jesus said only states that “I/we choose to believe that this person is above Jesus and when Jesus said “I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except by me” he was just being arrogant and is nothing more than a fraud and a liar.

To minimalize committing scriptures to memory only demonstrates that we are thinking in today’s standards. Yes, Jews memorized scriptures and they still do. So important were the scriptures that committing them to memory was of utmost importance from early childhood. That does not also mean that the Holy scriptures were not recorded They were dilligently and accurately recorded and sustained. No other book has been so faithfully copied with attention to the slightest detail. Were mistakes made? Well, thinking in today’s standards I would say absolutely! But even in today’s standards, given the impotance, I would have to concede that those mistakes would be minor and relatively insignificant. Certainly not broad enough to change the message or to make up the coming of the Mesiah.

Do we want to be God so much that we will ignore that Jesus was so real and had such an impact on the world that time itself was split with his coming - A.D. is Anno Domini which translates to “in the year of our Lord”. Jesus had nothing. Lived as a poor man. Yet he set the mark of time. I think it would take far more than some people picking and choosing “stories” for this to come about. Remember, the eye-witnesses were still alive. They would have never let the New Testament be accepted if it were not true and accurate.

John

“In response to Jesus being the way we are reconciled to God, Oprah said, ‘there are thousands of ways, there absolutely can’t be just one way.’”

Billions on up, John, throughout the eternal future.
Every man, woman and child arrives at the threshold of his own understanding of how God operates in His world with man. The Bible records only a few and those were taken from several hundred. Some one or a group, such as the Council of Nicea, took it upon themselves to make those choices. The Bishop of Hieropolis chose 27 books for the New Testament amidst thousands of writings during the 40-120 years after Jesus left. Most of those thousands mythologized Him, having him do all sorts of miracles which he never performed. Some even wrote about his childhood, killing birds to prove his power in front of his peers. The Catholics usually have these books between the testaments most protestants do not.

The point is that humans chose what the Word of God was going to be and what it was not going to be and gathered it together and made the Bible. I imagine that the same thing held true when
All the laws were decided for scriptures. Not all of them made it to publication. And that was after memory only for years until the l5OO’s when the printing press came.
When King James ordered a version, David and Goliath showed up with Elhanna and Goliath, both men killing the Giant “whose shew was alike a weaver’s beam. (see 2nd Samuel 21:19, Elhanna did it too.)

If the way was our choice or if God made us the way, there would be no cause for the Mesiah to come and save us from our sins. Just the fact Jesus was is indicative that we needed a savior. Rev. Purser, surely you will not say that Jesus was not. That does not casue a follower to be filled with a guilty spirit trying to please God. I believe God is already pleased with us. We are after all, His creation. Once we see that we have made a choice to deny God and cling to sin, I mean once we feel that unharmonious state between us and God, we realize what we must do. That is to repent or turn away from our sins and turn back to God who does love us and when we understand Jesus has bore the burden for our defiance, we can be free from it. If one feels guilt or a need to make up for it, they truly don’t understand the work of the cross.

That is the way we are reconciled to God. It makes no difference if your name for the creator is still the creator. That is not the point and is not what oprah was saying. It does matter when you choose to believe that Jesus has no place in the process. Without Jesus, nothing we believed or did will matter because we will be accountable for ourselves instead of free from Judgement through the sacrifice of Jesus.

Again, I love Oprah dearly. I used to watch her shows quite often and enjoyed them a lot. I just fear that she has exploited that popularity and is now abusing her podium to lead millions astray just because it sounds good to her and frees her from her own brokenness. Praise God for Oprah’s generosity and compassion. Many people live better because of it. However, leading people away from Grace is not improving their lives. Oprah cannot complete their spirit man by giving them things. Imagine what improvement to lives if Oprah stood up and shared the gospel with her millions of followers. What if she led them to Jesus and they suddenly realized that it was no longer about how good they could be but how good Jesus was for us? That would be amazing.

Thanks Marvin. You know I love you and don’t mean any offense to you. I just want to be clear on what Oprah said so you can understand my problem with it has nothing to do with race or sex.

John

ALL THE NAMES ATTRIBUTED TO GOD THROUGH HISTORY ARE NAMES “FOR” GOD. THIS STARTED IN OLD TESTAMENT TIMES WHEN NO ONE WAS ALLOWED TO CALL OUT THE NAME OF GOD OR ELSE HE WOULD DIE. SO THE HIGH PRIEST OF THE TRIBE OF AARON WOULD CALL GOD’S NAME ONE TIME A YEAR. WHEN HE DID, HE WAS NOT ALLOWED TO HEAR HIS OWN VOICE. SO A RAM’S HORN WAS BLOWN INTO HIS EAR AS HE CALLED GOD’S NAME, SO THAT THE PRIEST WOULD NOT HEAR IT LEST HE DIE.

WHEN WRITING, ONLY THE LETTERS YHWH WERE ALLOWED, NOT YAHWEH, BASICALLY FOR THE SAME REASON, SO NO ONE WOULD SEE THE NAME OF GOD. PURE SUPERSTITION OF THE FEAR OF GOD, BUT THEY DID IT. ALL THE OTHER NAMES, SUCH AS JEHOVAH AND ALLAH, WHATEVER GOD IS CALLED BY ANYONE IN ANY LAND TODAY ARE NAMES “FOR” GOD.

GOD HAS NO HANGUP WITH ANY WAY IN WHICH MAN WISHES TO EXPRESS HIS FAITH ABOUT HIM. HE DOES NOT NEED THE ATTENTION. MAN NEEDS TO MAKE HIM HIS PRIORITY. GOD HAS NO EGO TRIP ABOUT ANYTHING. MAN USUALLY DOES. GOD DOES NOT NEED US TO LOVE HIM. MAN NEEDS TO LOVE HIM.
GOD DOES NOT NEED MAN TO BUILD HIS KINGDOM. THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS GIVEN TO MAN BECAUSE MAN NEEDS SOMETHING TO DO AND TO ENJOY WHEN HE GETS IT DONE PROGRESSIVELY AND FOREVER. IT IS A GIFT FROM GOD TO MAN, UNCONDITIONALLY GIVEN WITH NO HANDS BUT OURS TO DO HIS WILL. WE DON’T DO GOD’S WILL BECAUSE GOD NEEDS US TO DO IT. WE DO IT BECAUSE IT IS THE WAY GOD HAS DESIGNED FOR MAN TO BE FULFILLED.

WHENEVER MAN FEELS THAT GOD NEEDS ANY OF OUR EMOTIONS, OR ANY OF OUR GIFTS AT THE ALTAR, MAN’S GOD IS TOO SMALL. WHEN MAN REALIZES THAT EVERY EXPRESSION HE USES TO SHOW HIS FAITH IN GOD IS HIS OWN NEED AND NOT ONE GOD NEEDS, GOD BECOME MUCH LARGER IN THE EYES OF MAN.

LOOK AT THE BIBLE AS A PROGRESSIVE RECORD OF MAN’S LEARNING THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD AND YOU WILL FEEL FREE TO UNDERSTAND, WITHOUT THE GUILT THAT YOU MIGHT BE DISOBEYING THE WORD OF GOD AS RECORDED IN THE BIBLE. YOU WILL SEE THE BIBLE AS A RECORD OF MAN LEARNING HOW GOD OPERATES IN THE WORLD. THE LEARNING IS A STEP BY STEP PROCESS THROUGH THE CENTURIES.

PLEASING GOD IS NOT A NEED OF GOD. IT IS A NEED OF MAN.

You and I know each other’s heart. You know I did not intend to offend anyone. Please do not incinuate that I am racist. I do not uplift Bill Gates in any way and have never even mentioned his name. I am thankful for all good people do. likewise, I do not condemn Oprah in any way. I merely call out her teachings. Some people should just stick to what brought them success and not try to create their own religion based on that prior success. Oprah has done much good in this world with her generocity and I do love Oprah as a neighbor in this world. It is her use of her platform to mislead people that I have a problem with. The fact that she is a black woman certainly makes no difference to me. She could be green or pink or white for all I care. I think you know me well enough to know my motivation is strictly biblical.

In fact Oprah wants to make people beleive that it does not matter what your name for God is becasue it will be ok. The scriptures do not say that. It is ironic that Oprah recalls her time of enlightenment as being when she heard “God is a jealous God” and she chose to believe that was wrong to her, then she stopped believing in God. What she missed in that was the message that there is one true God and worshipping other gods is not leading us to the same place. It will lead us to eternal sepperation from the one true God. The scriptures are clear in that. When you stand up and lead millions of people to believe that THEY ARE GOD and we all are god, I consider that a cult. I concede my deffinition may be loose of occult but the danger in it is the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgKIkruHZko

Blessings & Peace

John

oprah means in this reference to God the same thing Shakespeare meant when he said: “What’s in a name, that which we call a rose, by any other name would smell as sweet. Your God and Allah are the same God. They are both “The Creator.” A concrete idol and a picture of Jesus on the wall is the same act when they both refer to “God’ or any name for God, the Creator of all things.

mitchell,

Jesus certainly was not a biggot and he especially was not religious! Jesus hated religion and we should also for what it has done to our faith.

I suppose people must have really had a hard time with Jesus and who he said he was. People still have their problems with that. Listen to Oprah telling her cult there are thousands of ways to God and all gods are the same in the end. That is just convenient religion that allows us to just do as we want and believe we will be eternally with God.

In the end, with their being ONE GOD, I wonder if he will tell Oprah to go to one of those other gods instead when her life is over? How insulting that must be to our Creator.

john

“Neither is there salvation in any other. For there is no other name under Heaven whereby we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12)

“I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man cometh to the Father, but by me.” (John 14:6)

Debate is Thesis, antithesis, then synthesis. Synthesis on any debate is “a truth,” not “The Truth.” All “a truths” progress through past present and future. That is “The Way.”

The Truth is everything that was ever said or thought about any one subject. In it are all the “a truths.” What we live with in our day is a knowledge of all the “a truths” that have progressed up until we are here. Our living with that is The Life.

When you give your creator credit for all of these “a truths,” then you become a part of The Life With God.

When you only give mankind credit, then you still become apart of The Life and Without a knowledge of God’s Presence in yours or anybody’s life.

The choice is your free will given to you by the creator.

God is not a pushy guy.

Whichever decisions you make, He loves you anyway because you are his child in The Family of God, all equal, no matter what your choices are.

great nick by the way. That’s me too. I can only speak for myself, but I only spoke here intent on speaking against hate by Christians. I personally don’t hate anyone for a particular sin in their life. Aren’t we all sinners and don’t we all fall short? I know I do. I don’t really see where we were “fighting”. Just a couple of people firm in their beliefs making their points. I’ve talked to the Rev. Marvin Purser quite a bit since off of this blog and I assure you, we mutually respect each other’s views. Neither of us encourages hatred. We may get a little heated but that is an acceptable element of the process in my opinion.

I appreciate your views too and you make some great points. I think you may have mistaken the spirit of our argument. We’re all grinnin’; even the homosexuals who made the original complaint.

John

A true debate is one where each party argues their cause with respect for the others beliefs, and to present their case without being offensive.

It caused me pain to read some of the comments here, and I skipped the latter part of the argument (read: fight) because it was fairly degrading.

I do not believe in the trinity, I have never seen anything to provoke this, and have seen plenty of evidence against it. Therefore to me, its ridiculous.

[/Disclaimer]

God tells you to LOVE everyone. So where do you get the idea that religion is full of raw hatred, and those believers are maniacs who are steps away from eating our children. Run for the hills. Rawr! *bite*.

The Bible does not prohibit Love between men, it encourages it. What it prohibits is SEXUAL ACTS between men (or between women, or with animals). It tells you to kill off the offenders also, but, Jesus later says (albeit indirectly) to leave judging and punishing TO THOSE WITHOUT SIN THEMSELVES (Not people). The reason for prohibiting these sexual acts, (for me, its because I find it disgusting, but hey) would be because the Bible reserves sex as something between a man and a woman ONLY in a family, for strengthening the relationship, or for gods command to mankind- To fill the earth and subdue it.

Jesus was a nice guy. So isn’t it strange that, since he is the representation of the perfect Christian, he didn’t go around spouting fire and brimstone and hating everyone? (and eating children). They say you should lead by example. He led by example. Pay attention to that.

Furthermore, ALL the ‘atheists’ I have met, have insisted that anyone believing in anything other then nothing (atheism?) are being deceived/controlled/manipulated or are just idiots.

In a question of first impressions, I’d rather talk to Jesus, then an ‘atheist’. If there are atheists reading this who feel offended, my apologies, talk to your peers and tell them to clean up their act, or you’ll be stuck with this stereotype for a long time.

Although, some ‘Christians’ leave less then favorable first impressions (I’m looking at you, ‘rev marvin e purser jr’) the Christians I know personally, are all fantastic people who work hard for what they believe, and are far from the stereotypes mentioned here.

Contradictory to common belief, Christians are not supposed to force anyone to believe anything, its more a question of ‘leading a horse to water’, we try are best to do that, but the choice is ultimately yours. Free Will is Gods gift to us after all, it would be fairly stupid to tell his follows to act in the opposite way wouldn’t it?

God isn’t unfair, evil, or mean. As a lover of Justice (this is mentioned MANY times in the Bible) by default, the existence of God overrides people saying that God will punish all who don’t follow him on a whim. God wants all to follow him of THEIR OWN WILL. Therefore, he is a really nice guy too, so punishments for silly reasons belong to the false religious leaders which have appeared in the Bible as evil men, and still exist to an extent today. As to why God doesn’t stop natural disasters (a common theme on this… website?), there are many reasons largely due to the guy described below. Besides, the natural disasters labeled as ‘acts of God’ and blamed on him by even atheists, makes no sense. Since ALL of these disasters have been explained by science for a looong time.

As it seems to be a problem case, I’ll provide what I know on the rather controversial subject of Satan/Devil/(name of choice here).

Naturally, if you don’t want to accept the existence of God, you probably wont want to for Satan either.

According to the Bible (since no-other book references the origins of the Devil according to Christianity) Satan was once an Angel, who got jealous of Gods Creation on earth, and developed a mean streak. After the events at the Garden of Eden, there was a war in heaven between Satans followers, and God and his followers. Satan lost, and was booted onto earth with his followers (renamed from Angels to Demons).

The date of the Devils coming was 1914 (mistakenly believed to be the end of the world by some Christians of the time), interestingly enough though, that was the date of the beginning of the First World War.

To cut a long story short, the Devil embodies the opposite of God, so if God is infinitely Good and Just, the Devil is infinitely evil and unjust. You get the idea.

Feel free to continue debating over E-mail, or just to flame badly if you have no shame, at Littleman_5000@hotmail.com (don’t spam please). If you want to talk about Manga (yay) or Anime (almost as good), feel free to do so also.

Also if I missed anything (probably did…) POLITELY point it out, and I will do my best to answer.

I enjoy a good DEBATE, but detest fights, arguments, and petty squabbles. Come if you dare. Mwuha.

Fare thee well.

THE BIBLE: But these are the Hebrews Words”

your beliefs: butthese are your words

my beliefs: But these are my words.

Koran: but these area their words.

Science book: But these are their words.

Math book: But these area their words.

bottom line: these all are The Words of God given to man as much as he is willing and able to receive as he seeks the truth in The Kingdom of God, which is as Jesus said: “At hand” on your finger tips. You are in The Kingdom of God searching for whatever he has placed here for you and me. “seek and ye shall find” thanks John for the prayer. i am beginning to like you. Might even stay with lower case just for you. (Hope i don’t forget).

Good night Marvin. We seem to be at a stalemate my friend. I enjoyed the day and pray passersby will benefit from our debate. Peace and blessings to you sir. May the Lord keep you, your home and family safe from all harm of the hurricane coming in. Let us know how things turned out for you there.

John

I also read ll9 graduate theses from my seminary, all of them until I finished the last one. Found nothing in them that I would want to share with another.

To say that one law is the “current law” makes a previous Word of God changeable.

God did not change it except through the thought processes of mankind.

It was meant to work that way, hence 77 for one, eye for an eye and forgiving 70×7 is a progression of relationships between one and his enemy.
It is the progressive revelation of God given to man as he is willing and able to receive it.

Still: eye for eye never was okay with God! Imagine all the children of God
Sitting around Jesus and he telling them: Now, children, remember, when someone does something to you, do it back equally, an eye for an eye.

Now put that scene in the very first 100 years of man’s existence.

And you really believe that would have been ok with God? Puhleeeeeeeze!

we are the ones moving toward perfection, not God! He always was as He was,
never violent, never eye for an eye, never revengeful as the Old Testament writers believed
(Don’t try to prove me different with the hebrews beliefs in The Book. I know them all)

listen to God telling you today: Get with the Program, not the program of the Hebrew people in the first 1,000 years of man’s existence. why haven’t you also listen to the word of God in the Muslim faith or the Indian faith. I spoke to them down through the centuries also! And they are progressing from where they started just like your people have. I have spoken since! to all of you! And I speak to you now. You can think better than they did. Start thinking!

I’m about to abandon this thread. Your arguments are making a mess of things and are becoming quite silly. I love you my friend but this is getting redundant and your backlashes are spinning out of control.

As for Satan, he is a powerful adn created being and you better recognize that. It is written that we don’t fight against each other but against spiritual beings in high places. Satan is alive and well. If you are not aware of his presence, I can reasonably expect that you are comfortably where he wants you.

I bet you cannot believe only in God, never mention the devil in the pulpit again and then teach people to be Christian to one another.

you have to scare them out of hell instead, right?

God has progressed in the minds of man to where you do not have to do that any mo re. Remember that the Bible is a smorgasbord of beliefs and preachers choose what they want to teach their congregations. Example: why don’t you insist that all women cover their heads when they are in church. Paul of “Tarsus instructed the church to do that! It now is in “The Word of God,” cannot be changed, one iota. In the New TGestament too! That’s the New Covenaant, right? Yet, you leave it alone, don’t you. So you do take some freedom with what you teach from the scriptures. There are hundreds of these throughout the Bible, belliefs of Hebrews which we do not believe or practice today even though the Hebrew believed it to be God’s word for any man woman or child who chose to be a child of God.