Something which has been bugging me for a while, that I noticed in several conversations and comments (for instance, these ones by Jay Bird, and others not on this blog) is this: Christians, especially the more fundamentalist ones, believe that Christianity is special.
And I don’t mean “special” just in the sense of “well, it’s true, and the others aren’t”. I mean “special” as in being different, original. Something new. Christians believe that Christianity is unlike every other religion before and after, that its miracles were never seen before, that its teachings are original, and so on.
They aren’t.
Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism, and takes its Old Testament from it. It replaces the Judaic concept of Messiah (or “anointed one” - “Christós”, in Greek) with that of a “savior”, and no longer believes in the concept of “chosen people” that was so integral to Judaism.
Modern Christianity, though most Christians don’t realize it, does not come from Jesus, but from Saul of Tarsus, a.k.a. Paul. While managing to repudiate most of Judaism, except the parts that fit with his own beliefs, he was also able to “make” Jesus divine, without ever mentioning anything Jesus did or said. And what were his beliefs? From Wikipedia’s Mithraism article:
“The resemblances between the two hostile churches were so striking as to impress even the minds of antiquity” (Cumont, 193). Like Origen (an early Christian writer and in this respect a peculiarity among the other patristic writers), Mithraism held that all souls pre-existed in the ethereal regions with God, and inhabited a body upon birth. Similar to Pythagorean, Jewish, and Pauline theology, life then becomes the great struggle between good and evil, spirit and body, ending in judgment, with the elect being saved. “They both admitted to the existence of a heaven inhabited by beautiful ones. . .and a hell peopled by demons situate in the bowels of earth” (Cumont 191).
Both religions used the rite of baptism, and each participated in an outwardly similar type of sacrament, bread and wine. Both Mithra and Christ were supposedly visited by shepherds and Magi. It has been claimed that both Mithraism and Christianity considered Sunday their holy day, though for different reasons, although the evidence that Mithradists practiced weekly worship, any more than any other pagan religion of the time, is lacking. Many have noted that the title of Pope (father) is found in Mithraic doctrine and seemingly prohibited in Christian doctrine. The words Peter (rock) and mass (sacrament) have significance in Mithraism.
Mithraism and early Christianity considered abstinence, celibacy, and self-control to be among their highest virtues. Both had similar beliefs about the world, destiny, heaven and hell, and the immortality of the soul. Their conceptions of the battles between good and evil were similar (though Mithraism was more dualistic), including a great and final battle at the end of times. Mithraism’s flood at the beginning of history was deemed necessary because what began in water would end in fire, according to Mithraic eschatology. Both religions believed in revelation as key to their doctrine. Both awaited the last judgment and resurrection of the dead.
Nice, isn’t it? But there’s more.
Most Christian holidays were “stolen” from pagan religions. December 25th, for instance, was the day of the celebration of Sol Invictus in Rome. Early Roman Christianity, in fact, has a lot to do with the cult of Sol Invictus, and virtually nothing to do with a guy called Jesus who lived about 300 years ago on a distant part of the Empire.
(Incidentally, the holy day was moved, at that time, from Saturday (the Sabbath) to Sunday. SUN-day. Sound familiar?)
The Catholic worship of the Virgin Mary was little more than a way to absorb the pagan cult of the Goddess into Christianity. Of course, I don’t think many Catholics realize it these days.
Before Jesus, mythical characters like Dionysus, Romulus or (again) Mithras had similar stories: born of a virgin impregnated by a god, turned water into wine, healed the sick, died and resurrected after 3 days, and so on. Early Christian storytellers, it seems, were unable even to invent new plots.
One could say that Jesus’ teachings are original. It has been argued, however, that some depictions of him as meek (”turn the other cheek”, “render unto Ceasar”, and so on) were introduced there to please a mostly Roman world; if you suffer, remain meek and obey your rulers, and wait for something better after you die. Besides, some parts of the NT contradict that depiction (e.g. Luke 22:36, where Jesus tells his followers to buy a sword).
If Christianity has one thing different from all other current religions, it’s its popularity. Of course, that same popularity has caused an interesting effect: from time to time, someone decides that the Christianity around him isn’t real Christianity, and that he will recreate “the real thing”. This has happened for about 2000 years, and so there are probably thousands or surviving variants (I’m not even counting the ones that didn’t survive) of Christianity around. Some just diverge on minor points, others are so different that the only thing they have in common is that some guy called “Jesus” was pretty important to them (and even that particular point isn’t strictly required). Therefore, if we were to be precise, there’s not such a thing as “Christianity”; it’s a type of religions, not a religion.
Anyway, my point is: Christianity isn’t special at all. There’s nothing in it that hasn’t been seen before, and people in Western countries (even many non-Christians) only think of it as “special” because of their lack of knowledge.
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Exactly what I meant by a little too much intelligence being a bad thing.
Evolution, yes….. but not evolution of beliefs.
There is a voice in you that you are trying to drown out with your version of reason. If you can convince others that there is no voice calling to them, it’s not as lonesome being outside Gods will. A lot of empty words thudding on the ground as you speak. There is no heat or comfort in your logic. No solutions, only raised awareness of our emptiness.
Christ is the central point of Christianity. satan exists to stir to pot, to muddy the truth. As far as it being special, yes, very special. Humanity was borne from the laughter of the Holy Trinity. There has never been a more special occurrence than Christs life and death and rising again. 2000 years after He walked this earth, I would gladly die before denouncing Him, along with billions of others. That scares you, I know.
You see through your eye of your mind and not your heart. You listen to the voices of dissension and not the truth that speaks into you. The voice that has always been there. Who knows you down to your atoms. He is
there. When you put your head on the pillow tonight, ask Him.
Saul/Paul job was to kill Christians, and work was good. He met Christ on the Damascus Road, went blind, and
the rest is history. Christ was divine and did not need Paul to make Him so.
Open yourself to the deeper truth. Recognize that our best and brightest are like children, stumbling around in the dark. We know enough to hurt ourselves.
Jay… tsk tsk tsk.
And you call yourself a Christian.
“Judge not lest ye be judged.”
C’mon man, understand that this means you can’t judge any other religion, or non religion as inferior and therefore cannot claim that Christianity is SPECIAL.
There are a few things we can quote Jesus on that are true, regaurdless of any religion.
For the previous comment:
Why does your misquote of Matthew 7 mean Christians can’t judge anything? Have you ever read the whole verse, or context its found in? It talks of how the one who judges will be judged the same way, not “don’t judge at all.” Try this site http://www.biblegateway.com and do a search for the word judge in the New Testament, and see just how many times it shows up and how Christians ARE to judge each other (specifically other Christians more than other people).
Anyway, I keep having this site pop up on blog explosion and take the time to read the latest entries when I browse blogs. It’s very informative, but I fear that entries such as this one usually over look some simple facts in order to uphold the point you’re making. One thing, is many Christian holidays didn’t rip off some other one like Christmas or Easter, maybe even Halloween. If a culture blends two different holidays together over the course of time, it doesn’ make either of them void over the other.
Secondly, if you really want to know what Paul believed, open a New Testament, since that’s where He expounded pretty much almost all there was to his faith. I notice you do research things well before posting, but something as glaring as going to the writings of the person you are talking about is really surprising.
Anyway, Merry Christmas or happy holidays or both.
All the history you quoted is true. Actually, the teachings of Jesus were borrowed from the Essenes. Abraham started the Jewish monotheistic God religion, Christianity, through Paul, was the next off-shoot, then came the Muslim faith. Of course, Buddhism came from Hinduism, so it’s kind of hard to figure out how any of those belief systems is special.
The specialness of Christianity isn’t to be found where you are looking for it. Show me another faith built around the belief in God actually coming to Earth as a human to offer his salvation to us. Nope, all the other men were, by their own admission, simply men.
Pedro,
I am a little disappointed that you haven’t decided to continue the discussion here. My post above points to a glaring hole in your belief that you have yet to either admit to or repair. As you have said in another post, atheists are open-minded to new evidence. I have shown you the reason Christians believe Christianity to be special. Let me know what you think.
[quote comment="7377"]The specialness of Christianity isn’t to be found where you are looking for it. Show me another faith built around the belief in God actually coming to Earth as a human to offer his salvation to us. Nope, all the other men were, by their own admission, simply men.[/quote]
Uh… so the outrageousness of a faith’s claim decides whether it’s true (or “special”)? Does it mean that if I claimed that not only God came to Earth, but he has incarnated as one of my cats, that would make such a belief even “more special” than Christianity?
Hint: anyone can claim anything. That doesn’t make it true.
Besides, if you had read my post at all, instead of just being offended by the title, you’d have read that all of Christianity’s claims have been made before, by so-called “pagan” believers. If both Jesus and Dionysus were born from a virgin, and died and resurrected after 3 days, what makes one tale true and the other a myth — especially when Dionysus came first?
“A myth is a religion in which no one any longer believes.”
— James Feibleman
Doesn’t make it right, original, or even true. Actually, it would seem the only reason “Christianity” survived was because it was able (with the help of the Roman Empire) to absorb and take over the most celebrated holidays at the time becoming the Roman Catholic Church.
A good read why Christianity might have succeeded
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/religion/why/appeal.html
[quote post="183"]
Uh… so the outrageousness of a faith’s claim decides whether it’s true (or “special”)? Does it mean that if I claimed that not only God came to Earth, but he has incarnated as one of my cats, that would make such a belief even “more special” than Christianity?
Hint: anyone can claim anything. That doesn’t make it true.
Besides, if you had read my post at all, instead of just being offended by the title, you’d have read that all of Christianity’s claims have been made before, by so-called “pagan” believers. If both Jesus and Dionysus were born from a virgin, and died and resurrected after 3 days, what makes one tale true and the other a myth — especially when Dionysus came first?[/quote]
Actually I did read your post completely, twice, before I responded. Please don’t change the subject. I don’t believe you are unintelligent enough to think that “true” and “special” are the same thing so please don’t insult me with such a weak answer.
You didn’t ask me to point out to you the truth of Christianity. You said that it bothers you that Christians find Christianity special. Then you claimed it had no such special traits. I simply pointed out what is probably the single largest point of specialness to a believer. That was necessitated because well, a believer is going to be the only one that sees it as special.
I’m a little confused by the fact that you were Christian until the age of what, 26, but this thought hadn’t occurred to you. I believe that the Christian community does a very poor job of explaining anything in their beliefs and wish they could have at least helped you with this one.
My statement still stands as an answer that has not been proven invalid. Please don’t take this personally but, if you hate ignorance/stupidity and the like as your “Who Am I” post says then please try harder than this or simply be humble enough to admit that, for a believer, this is unique among the faiths.
[quote post="183"]You said that it bothers you that Christians find Christianity special. Then you claimed it had no such special traits. I simply pointed out what is probably the single largest point of specialness to a believer. That was necessitated because well, a believer is going to be the only one that sees it as special.[/quote]
That’s where you apparently got it wrong. When I said that Christianity isn’t special, I meant as a religion, compared to others, objectively. Of course, to a Christian it will be seen as “special”, because he or she will believe it to be true (unlike all the others), just like a believer of any other religion will believe his or her faith is “special”. But that’s subjective, and it wasn’t what my post was about.
My point was: the stories aren’t new. The characters (except for the names and specific places) aren’t new. The claims aren’t new. The teachings aren’t new. Most of Christianity is adapted from previous myths - yes, including a “son of a god” coming to earth and dying for our sins.
In fact, early Christians had this problem when preaching Christianity, before the Roman Empire supported it with all its power: people of pagan religions already had the same myths, just with different names. “So,” they asked, “what makes your claim true and ours false?”
Ok then, if that is what you meant I definately didn’t get that. It seemed that you were bothered with Christian’s who believed their religion was unique when, in fact, it has several unique, though unverifiable, beliefs when compared to the major religions of today. May I ask where I can look for an earlier belief system that had God, or a son thereof, coming to Earth and dying for our sins?
From Wikipedia:
Maybe not specifically “dying for our sins”, since the concept of everyone being a “sinner” is mostly Christian (and, IMO, one of the most anti-life beliefs ever, by the way), but Dionysus still was, supposedly, the son of a god, who died, lived again, and was, according to the above, the “liberator of mankind”. Close enough.
Hercules was also a son of a god. Or Perseus. That’s not rare in those mythologies, all of them older than Christianity.
Pedro,
Thanks, I’m going to go research Dionysus now. Just curious, who do you know that hasn’t committed an act that would be considered a sin?
I was aware of the relationships between Gods and man in these mythologies but am not very familiar with Dionysus yet. Out of curiosity, do you know how these myths have changed over time and, how they have evolved to stay alive?
Thanks again.
Pedro,
Another question. However, if you feel this is best continued in another venue or is off topic please let me know. Do you see any evidence of the existence of these gods/people out side of the literature of their civilizations? Jesus, at least as a person, can be seen in several literatry works across three cultures. Do you question the existence of Jesus as a person? Just asking.