Comments on: The Dark Side of the Bible, part 1 http://www.wayofthemind.org/2006/09/14/the-dark-side-of-the-bible-part-1/ Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:00:37 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Klaus Nurnberger http://www.wayofthemind.org/2006/09/14/the-dark-side-of-the-bible-part-1/#comment-3436 Klaus Nurnberger Wed, 04 Oct 2006 16:01:00 +0000 http://www.wayofthemind.org/2006/09/14/the-dark-side-of-the-bible-part-1/#comment-3436 The Bible is a product of human history, but that does not preclude divine agency. According to the biblical witness God enters human history, picks up people where they are and leads them where he wants them to be. This is a historical process that can easily be seen in biblical history itself. Once we understand that we can be critical of biblical statements in the name of God without losing the underlying redemptive dynamic of the Word of God. If you are interested in my research (I am a professional theologian), visit my website www.klaus-nurnberger.com where you will find a position paper, abstracts of my two books on the subject and further details. There is also a blog: puzzled-bored-upset-by-the-bible. I would appreciate your cmments there. Klaus The Bible is a product of human history, but that does not preclude divine agency. According to the biblical witness God enters human history, picks up people where they are and leads them where he wants them to be. This is a historical process that can easily be seen in biblical history itself. Once we understand that we can be critical of biblical statements in the name of God without losing the underlying redemptive dynamic of the Word of God.
If you are interested in my research (I am a professional theologian), visit my website http://www.klaus-nurnberger.com where you will find a position paper, abstracts of my two books on the subject and further details. There is also a blog: puzzled-bored-upset-by-the-bible. I would appreciate your cmments there.
Klaus

]]> By: Joshua http://www.wayofthemind.org/2006/09/14/the-dark-side-of-the-bible-part-1/#comment-3074 Joshua Fri, 22 Sep 2006 05:44:40 +0000 http://www.wayofthemind.org/2006/09/14/the-dark-side-of-the-bible-part-1/#comment-3074 Im a christian and I agree with everything you said. I have a view of Christianity that many I know find hard to accept. To me it seems obvious, but its a Christianity that isn't as "easy". Find every parable that Jesus used to describe the "kindom of heaven" and you will see that there is one recurring theme that is hard to miss. The kingdom of heaven is a collection of people who BELIEVE, but only those who meet Gods standards are accepted by him. So believing in God/Jesus gets you in the door you could say, but following the word of God keeps you in. Jesus said that, "you are truly my disciples if you keep obeying my teachings."(john 8:31). In the parable of the king having a wedding party for his son(matthew 22:2), even though the person was in the "party", because he wasn't wearing "wedding clothes" he was thrown out. If you believe that you are going to a wedding, you wear wedding clothes. If, like you said in your post, you believe in God/Jesus, you study what He had to say and you follow it. So I believe that belief in Jesus without practice of His words is NOT salvation. This upsets a lot of Christians I know, but its what the Bible says. What sort of belief leads you to do the opposite anyways? Atheists can take comfort in the fact that the "christians" who spend more time condemning others than becoming like Christ, will most likely be in hell soon. . . but who really knows for sure Im a christian and I agree with everything you said. I have a view of Christianity that many I know find hard to accept. To me it seems obvious, but its a Christianity that isn’t as “easy”.

Find every parable that Jesus used to describe the “kindom of heaven” and you will see that there is one recurring theme that is hard to miss. The kingdom of heaven is a collection of people who BELIEVE, but only those who meet Gods standards are accepted by him. So believing in God/Jesus gets you in the door you could say, but following the word of God keeps you in. Jesus said that, “you are truly my disciples if you keep obeying my teachings.”(john 8:31).

In the parable of the king having a wedding party for his son(matthew 22:2), even though the person was in the “party”, because he wasn’t wearing “wedding clothes” he was thrown out. If you believe that you are going to a wedding, you wear wedding clothes. If, like you said in your post, you believe in God/Jesus, you study what He had to say and you follow it.

So I believe that belief in Jesus without practice of His words is NOT salvation. This upsets a lot of Christians I know, but its what the Bible says. What sort of belief leads you to do the opposite anyways? Atheists can take comfort in the fact that the “christians” who spend more time condemning others than becoming like Christ, will most likely be in hell soon. . . but who really knows for sure

]]> By: Kren http://www.wayofthemind.org/2006/09/14/the-dark-side-of-the-bible-part-1/#comment-2978 Kren Sun, 17 Sep 2006 19:07:55 +0000 http://www.wayofthemind.org/2006/09/14/the-dark-side-of-the-bible-part-1/#comment-2978 Good point. With that effect of making your own religion, I'm sure that's what most people do than. Can't wait for Part 2. Good point. With that effect of making your own religion, I’m sure that’s what most people do than.
Can’t wait for Part 2.

]]> By: Pedro Timóteo http://www.wayofthemind.org/2006/09/14/the-dark-side-of-the-bible-part-1/#comment-2971 Pedro Timóteo Sun, 17 Sep 2006 10:46:34 +0000 http://www.wayofthemind.org/2006/09/14/the-dark-side-of-the-bible-part-1/#comment-2971 [quote post="147"]So if I were a priest, (Personally far from it) I’d pick parts from the book that I thought made good sense, and repeat them over and over to people I thought… just weren’t getting it.[/quote] But it's the "picking and choosing" thing again: if you do the above, aren't you, in effect, creating your own religion? If you choose to ignore 90% of the Bible, why not ignore 100% of it? Why is it that some parts remain divinely inspired, while others are obviously the product of bigoted, primitive men? But I'll write more about this in the next parts of "The Dark Side of the Bible". :) [quote post="147"]So if I were a priest, (Personally far from it) I’d pick parts from the book that I thought made good sense, and repeat them over and over to people I thought… just weren’t getting it.[/quote]

But it’s the “picking and choosing” thing again: if you do the above, aren’t you, in effect, creating your own religion? If you choose to ignore 90% of the Bible, why not ignore 100% of it? Why is it that some parts remain divinely inspired, while others are obviously the product of bigoted, primitive men?

But I’ll write more about this in the next parts of “The Dark Side of the Bible”. :)

]]> By: Kren http://www.wayofthemind.org/2006/09/14/the-dark-side-of-the-bible-part-1/#comment-2954 Kren Sat, 16 Sep 2006 08:46:10 +0000 http://www.wayofthemind.org/2006/09/14/the-dark-side-of-the-bible-part-1/#comment-2954 As a human being, being a priest would be one difficult task. If you told someone they should read the bible, there's plenty of things they may take from it that are absolutely horrible. Like "Jerusalem was meant for Jews and everybody else there should die."? People are impressionable. Yet, the bible is what a priest is supposed to use for text on living. So if I were a priest, (Personally far from it) I'd pick parts from the book that I thought made good sense, and repeat them over and over to people I thought... just weren't getting it. So a priest has a form of responcibility NOT to bring people into an old world form of view, using old text. Taking very old text and turning into good values today though, isn't THAT hard, ("Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone") and some priest fail miserably. As a human being, being a priest would be one difficult task.

If you told someone they should read the bible, there’s plenty of things they may take from it that are absolutely horrible. Like “Jerusalem was meant for Jews and everybody else there should die.”? People are impressionable.

Yet, the bible is what a priest is supposed to use for text on living.

So if I were a priest, (Personally far from it) I’d pick parts from the book that I thought made good sense, and repeat them over and over to people I thought… just weren’t getting it.

So a priest has a form of responcibility NOT to bring people into an old world form of view, using old text.

Taking very old text and turning into good values today though, isn’t THAT hard, (”Let he who has not sinned cast the first stone”) and some priest fail miserably.

]]> By: Pedro Timóteo http://www.wayofthemind.org/2006/09/14/the-dark-side-of-the-bible-part-1/#comment-2919 Pedro Timóteo Thu, 14 Sep 2006 21:35:55 +0000 http://www.wayofthemind.org/2006/09/14/the-dark-side-of-the-bible-part-1/#comment-2919 tinni: both from my experience, and from everything others have told me, most pastors don't really encourage people to read all the Bible. They don't tell them <i>not</i> to do it, either, but their main focus is on church activities, prayer, and so on. And it's a fact that most Christians haven't read even 25% of the Bible. Anyway, the "horrifying" parts of the Bible I mention aren't about hellfire and damnation. I don't mean <i>that</i> kind of scary. It's a different kind - related to this world, and to humanity, not to the afterlife. You'll see what I mean, in the next parts... tinni: both from my experience, and from everything others have told me, most pastors don’t really encourage people to read all the Bible. They don’t tell them not to do it, either, but their main focus is on church activities, prayer, and so on.

And it’s a fact that most Christians haven’t read even 25% of the Bible.

Anyway, the “horrifying” parts of the Bible I mention aren’t about hellfire and damnation. I don’t mean that kind of scary. It’s a different kind - related to this world, and to humanity, not to the afterlife. You’ll see what I mean, in the next parts…

]]> By: Pedro Timóteo http://www.wayofthemind.org/2006/09/14/the-dark-side-of-the-bible-part-1/#comment-2918 Pedro Timóteo Thu, 14 Sep 2006 21:31:49 +0000 http://www.wayofthemind.org/2006/09/14/the-dark-side-of-the-bible-part-1/#comment-2918 To the first 2 commenters: as an atheist, I think that the Bible is a fascinating read. It's a piece of history, written thousands of years ago, and gives us an insight into the myths and customs of the ancient Israelites. Also, some parts, especially in the King James version, are beautifully poetic. I plan to read the Koran too, in the future. I love history and mythology, and these old books are fascinating in those aspects. To the first 2 commenters: as an atheist, I think that the Bible is a fascinating read. It’s a piece of history, written thousands of years ago, and gives us an insight into the myths and customs of the ancient Israelites.

Also, some parts, especially in the King James version, are beautifully poetic.

I plan to read the Koran too, in the future. I love history and mythology, and these old books are fascinating in those aspects.

]]> By: tinni http://www.wayofthemind.org/2006/09/14/the-dark-side-of-the-bible-part-1/#comment-2917 tinni Thu, 14 Sep 2006 20:12:30 +0000 http://www.wayofthemind.org/2006/09/14/the-dark-side-of-the-bible-part-1/#comment-2917 I am not quite sure that what you said about priest and pastors not wanting their "flock" to read the bible is quite right. I have always been told I need to read all of the bible. Yes, some parts are scary to think about but, that is like the saying, "the fear of GOD." Pastors encourge us to question the our readings that is how we learn from them. I am not sure what type of church you may have attended, but that does not sound like any church that I have ever heard of. I am not quite sure that what you said about priest and pastors not wanting their “flock” to read the bible is quite right. I have always been told I need to read all of the bible. Yes, some parts are scary to think about but, that is like the saying, “the fear of GOD.” Pastors encourge us to question the our readings that is how we learn from them. I am not sure what type of church you may have attended, but that does not sound like any church that I have ever heard of.

]]> By: yh http://www.wayofthemind.org/2006/09/14/the-dark-side-of-the-bible-part-1/#comment-2903 yh Thu, 14 Sep 2006 12:02:22 +0000 http://www.wayofthemind.org/2006/09/14/the-dark-side-of-the-bible-part-1/#comment-2903 Well, I would sure read the Bible when I have time. You have to agree that it's one of the best pieces of man's work, don't you? :D Well, I would sure read the Bible when I have time. You have to agree that it’s one of the best pieces of man’s work, don’t you?
:D

]]> By: velvetsatine http://www.wayofthemind.org/2006/09/14/the-dark-side-of-the-bible-part-1/#comment-2902 velvetsatine Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:14:12 +0000 http://www.wayofthemind.org/2006/09/14/the-dark-side-of-the-bible-part-1/#comment-2902 Looking forward to reading part 2. Great introduction here and a very well written text. Did you know that the Bible is one of the compulsory readings in some Literature courses in Faculdade de Letras de Lisboa? I've never read it (I did read the illustrated version of it though, but it's not really the same, is it?). No wonder, really. I always refused attending Sunday School as well. :-D Looking forward to reading part 2. Great introduction here and a very well written text.

Did you know that the Bible is one of the compulsory readings in some Literature courses in Faculdade de Letras de Lisboa? I’ve never read it (I did read the illustrated version of it though, but it’s not really the same, is it?). No wonder, really. I always refused attending Sunday School as well. :-D

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