If part 1 didn’t convince you yet…
Let’s say you are right and atheism is a religion. Let’s also assume, for simplicity, that you’re a Christian.
You believe in the Christian God, and that belief is is a religion, so you have 1 religion.
You don’t believe in Aphrodite, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 2 religions.
You don’t believe in Vishnu, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 3 religions.
You don’t believe in Thor, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 4 religions.
You don’t believe in Osiris, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 5 religions.
You don’t believe in Zeus, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 6 religions.
You don’t believe in Shiva, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 7 religions.
You don’t believe in Odin, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 8 religions.
You don’t believe in Ra, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 9 religions.
You don’t believe in the Tooth Fairy, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 10 religions.
You don’t believe in the Easter Bunny, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 11 religions.
You don’t believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 12 religions.
You don’t believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 13 religions.
You don’t believe in the Abominable Snowman, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 14 religions.
You don’t believe in fairies, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 15 religions.
You don’t believe in elves, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 16 religions.
You don’t believe in orcs, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 17 religions.
You don’t believe in hobbits, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 18 religions.
You don’t believe in King Kong, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 19 religions.
You don’t believe in Godzilla, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 20 religions.
What’s that? You don’t have 20 religions, only one, because non-beliefs are not religions?
Well, with atheists it’s the same, except that we don’t have even that one. We have zero religions. “What’s your religion?” “I don’t have any.”
Is it so hard to understand that, to an atheist, the Christian God - or indeed any god - is as much a fictional being as those other examples?
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You believe in the Christian God, and that belief is is a religion, so you have 1 religion.
You don’t believe in Aphrodite, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 2 religions.
You don’t believe in Vishnu, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 3 religions.
You don’t believe in Thor, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 4 religions.
You don’t believe in Osiris, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 5 religions.
You don’t believe in Zeus, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 6 religions.
You don’t believe in Shiva, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 7 religions.
You don’t believe in Odin, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 8 religions.
You don’t believe in Ra, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 9 religions.
You don’t believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 13 religions.
^All covered in Atheism.
You don’t believe in the Tooth Fairy, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 10 religions.
You don’t believe in the Easter Bunny, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 11 religions.
You don’t believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 12 religions.
You don’t believe in the Abominable Snowman, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 14 religions.
You don’t believe in fairies, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 15 religions.
You don’t believe in elves, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 16 religions.
You don’t believe in orcs, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 17 religions.
You don’t believe in hobbits, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 18 religions.
You don’t believe in King Kong, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 19 religions.
You don’t believe in Godzilla, and that non-belief is a religion, so you have 20 religions.
^Not worshiped as deities.
Do you want to keep going, or are you done? :-/
man u r making me angry with your blatent denial
i see that there is no getting threw
stuff u joe
go ahead call a panda a trout
bit of info
ITS STILL A BLOODY PANDA
Atheism is the lack of belief in a god or gods. Therefore, lack of religion. Therefore, your religion is Atheism. Not really that hard to grasp, guys.
“stuff u joe”
…
Joe,
Go to Google and in the search box type “define:religion” then hit the enter key. Many definitions of religion will show up, all of them include a belief in the sacred, holy, divine, super natural… God. Without that, it isn’t a religion. No matter how desperately you attempt to abuse the language, being athiest will never be defined as a religion. Because atheism, and feel free to Google this one as well, is by definition in direct opposition to the idea of religion.
Ryan,
One word: Wicca.
http://www.religioustolerance.org/witchcra.htm
Anything else?
Here’s why this post is completely wrong:
“You believe in the Christian God, and that belief is is a religion, so you have 1 religion.”
WRONG!
The belief that there is a god is NOT a religion. A religion includes a whole lot of addition stuff around it to make it a religion. From the definitions on answers.com: “A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.” or “A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.”
Let’s say I believe in god. What is my religion? You don’t know, do you? It could be Christianity. It could be Islam. It could be any number of other religions. The belief in god is not a religion. Therefore, the non-belief of a god is not a religion.
Lorne
Thank you
Thank you very much
You are completely and utterly right.
The word “Belief” does not imply religion.
That would mean that if you believed it when I say that I have eight arms,
you are now part of some cool guy with eight arms religion.
Thank you very much for pointing it out our obvious error.
Im ashamed to say that I never would have thought about it like that.
Joe: sorry, but you are in denial. If you have no religion, then, when asked your religion, you answer “I don’t have any.” Why is it so important for you to believe that everyone must have a religion?
Lorne: you’re only helping my point: if mere belief does not mean it’s a religion, then how could non-belief be one?
@ Pedro: Religion is a classification; you can’t simply have none. If you hold yourself to believe in nothing, Atheism is as close as it gets. Why can’t you just accept that? You need to go back and read up on the definitions of religion, and other religions. Go buy “The Religion Book; The Encyclopedia of Places, Prophets, Saints, and Seers”, by Jim Willis. It’s a good, unbiased look into all religions, mainstream or not. Hell, they even have a section on the Abominable Snoman.
@ Lorne: “Let’s say I believe in god. What is my religion?” Theism. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theism
Lorne and Joe,
Definition of religion: “a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny” (wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn)
“commonly defined as belief concerning the supernatural, sacred, or divine, and the moral codes, practices and institutions associated with such belief.” (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/religion)
Reading those, I understand the belief in a god as enough to call something a religion.
Quoting Joe: “Therefore, lack of religion. Therefore, your religion is Atheism”
Joe, that is a contradiction in itself. How on earth do you get a lack of religion to become a religion? There is no supernatural or divine in Atheism.
“Set, Apollo, Thor….
I go one god further- can you?”
Hi,
I’m a first time poster, but I’ve been reading you blog with great interest for some time now.
I would say that atheism is not a religion, it is defined by the absence of any religion.
A religion imply the belief in a (or many) divinity, a cultural mindset driven by the dictats of that religion that influence your moral values and the way you see and comprehend events and emotions. BUT, in the first place, it requires the presence of a divinity, most likely described with a physical image (or a metaphorical one).
I’m a atheist, but I’ve been raisent in a catholic society. Automaticcly, I’ve heritated the moral values and mindset of this institution, the 10 commendments, “thou shalt not kill”, etc. I just don’t believe in the divinity behind it. I still believe many of the values and beliefs of the catholic religion, but I made up my own mind on many other things. Its more like a philosophy of life, based on rationality and common sense.
I don’t praise a surnatural power that control my destiny and care for me, so I don’t think it’s much of a religion.
Olivier
You don’t understand what I’m getting at. Say you’re a dog, but you’re a mutated dog that’s better than everything else. Well, you can’t just not be an animal. You’re still an animal. You have to be an animal. You’re a different type of animal, sure, but you still have to be classified as something. That’s what atheism is. You still have a classification, but your religion is simply not having one, which is atheism. I really don’t see why you guys don’t see that. No, Atheism isn’t organised. Nor is Theism, or Agnosticism, but they’re still religions. That’s like having a sheet of clear plastic. What color is it, guys? “It dosen’t have one!” It’s still clear.
This question can be debated for as long as you like, but the main point of Atheism is still the same: There are no deities, gods, godesses, etc. That the Big Bang is the reason why the universe was made. That evolution created man, and natural selection spit man out at the top of the food chain.
You can argue this question all you want, but it’s going to produce the same results as “can God create a rock so heavy that even he himself can not lift it?” : Controversy.
[QUOTE] Originally posted by Elianara: How on earth do you get a lack of religion to become a religion? [/QUOTE]
A vacuum in space is where nothing in it exists. Yet a vacuum exists there.
I’m sorry that I’m posting for the thrice time, but I have to correct myself is the above post didn’t make sense.
If a vacuum contains no matter at all, then if something like say, a astronaut went in a vacuum, would it still be a vacuum?
I view it like this.
There are 4 blood types (not including RH factors). Type A, Type B, Type AB, and Type O. There are two types of antibodies in the blood; A and B. Type O doesn’t contain either A or B antibodies, it contains neither. So the letter O was given to it to classify it in a similar manner as the others, although there is no antibody called “O”, it is null.
Believing in a supernatural power is like having one of the antibodies. Your religion matches the antibody type. Not believing in a supernatural power is equivalent to having no antibody.
Atheism is just a name to describe a null factor. It is the remainder in the equation. It’s just something to put on paper beside everything else. Humans have this desire to classify everything and that’s where Atheism falls into place.
It’s a fallacy to describe having a lack of religious belief as a religion. Divide by zero.
Joe, I still don’t know if you really believe in what you’re saying, or if you’re just trolling. I hope it’s the former.
If someone asks you what model is your car, and you don’t have any vehicles at all, do you say “feet”? Or do you say “I don’t have one”? I do the latter, but you seem to imply that everyone has a “car”, everyone must have a “car”, even if it’s just your feet. Which, of course, makes no sense.
Just like not everyone has a car, not everyone has a religion… and I really can’t understand why is it so important to you that everyone has one, no matter what.
You’re not getting it, Pedro. Religion is a classification. Even when you’re 3, you still believe- or not believe, mind you- in something. If people didn’t use religions to classify you, why would they bother coming up with names for Atheism, Agnosticism, or Theism? If you were sent to jail for any reason, I have a feeling the conversation would go like this:
“What’s your religion?”
“I don’t have one.”
“Atheist, got it. Next.”
Ever wonder why they ask for your religion in prisons? To classify you.
Atheism and Agnosticism are synonym for not religiously worshiping anything. Atheism is the lack of belief in a god or gods. No, you don’t religiously worship anything, but I think I’ve said this same thing twenty times and you still haven’t, you know, actually read it.
With the car analogy, you’re not even bothering to see how the previous analogies I have been making fit to the subject. You’re throwing in a totally tangent thing, like a vehicle. Mabye if I made more analogies, you’d start to see the pattern.
What color is a white sheet of paper? It dosen’t have one? No, it’s white. The color is white.
What’s in a vacuum? Nothing? Well, yes, but there’s still a vacuum there too. A vacuum is inside a vacuum.
What color is a glass of water? It dosen’t have one? No, it’s clear. The color is clear.
What’s your religion? You don’t believe in a god or gods, so you don’t have one? No, that’s atheism. Your religion is Atheism.
Are you getting the pattern yet?
*sigh*
White if you don’t have a piece of paper at all? What if you don’t have a glass of water at all?
The difference between us is that you believe that everyone must have a religion. I don’t. It’s not a fundamental quality of being human. It’s like having a car: some people have one (or more), some don’t. If it makes you happy, sure, go ahead, classify “atheism” as a religion, “I walk” as a car, “bald” as a hair color, “not collecting stamps” as a hobby. But they aren’t, and will never be unless you shift definitions around - also known as changing the meaning of words.
Which I won’t do. Religion = belief in something supernatural. An atheist has no such thing, therefore: no religion. If it makes you happy, convince yourself that your agnosticism is one.
Never mind all this. I’m beginning to believe that you’re being stubborn for the sake of being stubborn, or to see how far you can go. I won’t reply to this subject any more, sorry.
It helps if you try to understand the point that I’m getting at, mabye I should just put it simply.
Everyone has a religion for classification’s sake, even if it is a mainstream religion or not.
Says who?
Last time I looked, I wasn’t in prison…
” Everyone has a religion for classification’s sake
Says who?”
“Even when you’re 3, you still believe- or not believe, mind you- in something.”
“Last time I looked, I wasn’t in prison… ”
“If you were sent to jail for any reason,”
Joe,
How can you make the logical leap from “Therefore, lack of religion.” to “Therefore, your religion is Atheism.” ?
Leap of faith?
Person A: “What beer would you like?”
Person B: “I don’t like beer”
Person A: “So you you want an empty bottle, then?”
And who cares if theists think atheism is a religion? Why push our *hu-hum* beliefs on them. Calling Atheism a religion is probably the least dammage they can do.
Pedro, I’d like to point out that you’re now a hypocrite, considering your former posts. And I quote:
“I won’t reply to this subject any more, sorry.”
Now. Back to the subject. Joe has a point, and I do believe you aren’t seeing it. It makes life easier if everyone is classified - for the good, or for the worse - depending upon your intelligence, etc. You can check off the “Other” box when MySpace asks for your religion, but that won’t change your religion.
[N]athan
Oh, I’m sorry, I must have missed a step.
Atheism-
# the doctrine or belief that there is no God
# a lack of belief in the existence of God or gods
Lack of religion-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religions#Non-belief_systems_.28lack_of_religion.29
Mabye you people will understand what I’m saying once you realise that yes, Atheism is under “Lack of Religion”, but it’s still in the list of religions.
[]Originally posted by Jheurf:
Person A: “What beer would you like?”
Person B: “I don’t like beer”
Person A: “So you you want an empty bottle, then?”[/]
Let’s change that to a religion conversation of the same format.
Person A: “What god/gods do you worship?”
Person B: “I don’t worship any god/gods.”
Person A: “So you’re atheist?”
Person B: “Yeah.”
[N]athan
Sure, blame this poor blogger for being generous and always expecting the best from people.
Ahhhhhh! “You people”
I love being part of “you people”. Makes you feel all warm and fuzzy, no?
If everybody was a hockey fan in you country, except a few (including you), and the prison form asked what was your favorite team, and you check the box that says “no favorite team”. Are you still a hockey fan?
People arguing logically about a word’s definition.
It doesn’t matter if some pencil pusher somewhere created a form with “Atheism” as a religion. What matters is what the word “religion” is defined at. No amount of circular logic traps will change that. Until I see a definition that says “Atheism: A religion that doesn’t believe in a religion”, it ain’t no religion.
Even if the tomato is in the vegetable aisle, it’s still a fruit.
I’m sorry that I used the shorthand “you people” unstead of the one I didn’t feel like typing out, “those of you who continue to argue about nothing without actually putting in any argument of your own and just trying to deny what I say without actually stopping to think in depth about the point I’m trying to make”.
Plus, “you people” is alot more polite.
They have been listning to the point you are trying to make.
They have contemplated, thought, wondered and studied your point,
and then since everyone else here seems to be in general agreement
with the fact that athiesm isint a religion.
We point the cannon at you.
It is you however, that no matter how much we put solid points across
your path refuses to seriously think about what we are trying to say.
How old is this “Joe?” Does he have an education beyond the second grade? Does he have so much fucking time on his hands that he argues a ridiculous point ad nauseum?
Gawd, some days I wish there was a fucking I.Q. requirement to using the bloody internet.
Joe, you answered yourself in a way, quoting: “To classify you”
Calling Atheism a religion is just a way for religious people to classify atheists and put a stamp on them, to put them in a box, saying you belong there. This doesn’t make Atheism a religion in the true meaning of the word religion. An atheist is just what the word says, a (wo)man without a god, without religion.