The original 16 Common Myths About Atheists post currently has a huge amount of comments, which may scare new readers off. Besides, most of them have diverged from the original purpose of the article (and I’m guilty of that as well, in my replies) - the discussion quickly left the myths about atheists, and became about whether God exists or not.
So, we can continue the discussion here. 
However, just one request: let’s try to go back to the original subject: the myths about atheists. Either whether they exist or not (though I have already posted about that here), and whether some of them are correct - that is, they aren’t really myths, because atheists are indeed like that (I don’t think we are, though there may be some sporadic exceptions).
So, without further ado… feel free to comment. 
Related posts:
In Noah’s time when he was building the Ark, they laughed and mocked him. And i dont blame them ^_^!! I would of thought hes loony too. Imagine how sure they where of themselves that Noah was a crazieee fellow.
Imagine when he went inside the ark with the animals, and sat for a couple of days in the sun?
But when that rain started to fall for the first time… Imagine how much regret they had when everything they where so sure of fell apart.
Yes hell is bad, but God has such a wonderful plan for you, He will make you His son, and invite you into His house. It all depends if you repent, turn away from your sins, and Follow Him who says “I AM”. If you reject his payment for your fine, you have to pay for it yourself. If i dont share the truth of Gods judgment day, that means i dont care about you guys. I want the best for you, He wants the best for you. I know you can do good things and be a good person on your own. But God’s moral standard is not nearly as low as ours.
Some people have been hurt from neglect by God, but he PROMISES if you draw near to Him (seek Him diligently), He will draw near to you.
Peace.
flyingpika: sorry, I don’t think he exists. But, to get back on topic, do you believe any of those things about atheists?
flyingpika
i hope youre fucking kidding dude
bro are you saying that unless i take him into my life i
the nicest fuken guy on the dam planet will go to hell. fuck you and preach somwhere else
I hate your patronising angle also. You talk as if you feel sorry for us athiests when the reverse is true.
We simply define our own beliefs and don’t need to give “GOD” the credit for our positive attributes or
successes. And those myths sound to me like christian propa-motherfucking-ganda.
Pedro,
Thanks for that article, i found it very interested, having myself beleived some of those myths. I am a Christian, but i am very open minded. Just as i can recognise that some christians are very close minded and are very ignorant, you should also see that many athiests may not be as open minded as you.
I admire that you have read the bible, i think it’s important that you know both sides of the story, i myself have read alot of muslim, general spirituality, astrology, and anything else i can get my hands on (hence why i’m reading your site) i think this is the a problem with alot of christians, not looking around at least having some knowledge of what other people belive.
I found number 15 very interesting, as it made me ask myself what would make me re-consider my beleifs? short of dieing and it not being what i expected (in which case i’d be dead) i’m not sure how i could answer that. I have faith that what i beleive is real, but being a bit of a thinker myself, i would be lying if i said i had never considered otherwise.
generalization =
if there was a stupid athiest standing next to me ( also an athiest )
and that idiot was ranting about how the world was
i would never consider myself the same as him.
and noboady else should assume that i am either.
Devo i respect your opinion you have proven yourself very openminded
I say that so perhaps you will not take offence to a saying my father has told me from birth
a little bit religious, a little bit stupid
very religious, very stupid ( only works on the basis of probability just as our logic and reason )
the point of this is a “myth” that i happen to believe about religion ( one that i happen to believe )
and although i am almost certain it applies to many of them
i am more certain that it does not apply to many of them
so back to the start
generalization = a closed mind
This was a terrible writing. You obviously were trying to prove the Christian’s generalized belief on atheists were untrue, but instead of doing that you generalized Christians (and all other religions, by effect). Which makes you as ignorant as you claim them to be. I’m sure you’ll get lots of kudos for it, but that doesn’t destroy any of the irony.
no by generalizing christians i was hoping to point out the flaw of doing it
which you have obviously picked up on hence the flame
and hey get me wrong and flame away
its perhaps more amusing and better for the noggin as saying how great it is that you agree with me
and yes my english is terrible i have no illusions to that fact
i have written perhaps 2 essays in my life and this is the first site i have posted on
i could pehaps write correctly considering picking up on it while spending over half of my short life of 18 years reading books
if i could be bothered. you could understand me couldnt you? so whats the problem
do you think your grammar is going to mean dick sitting on a island by yourself.
i come in peace
The problem with this is that you become what you are raised.
But that doesn’t mean one should be arrogant about it. I have the misfortune to sometimes catch FOX news (and the stupidity to actually watch it when I do) so all I can tell to you poor souls with an IQ over 90 in America is to come over here in EU we have some room for all the three dozens of you.
By-the-by, I don’t know if god exists and i don’t really care, does that make me an atheist?
This is the most biased peice of shit ive ever seen. You guys wont admit it, but mostly the real reason why you WONT believe in god is because you got sick of rules about not sinning so you use this “god doesnt exist until i see him” bullshit as an excuse to be able to do what you want without regret. And presonally, even though there is no ABSOLUTE proof since the many miracles that happen revently arent enoguh to convince you assholes; I would rather believe in god to die and find out there isnt, than not believe and die to find out there is and that because of my carelessness im probably gonna go to hell. And from this crock pot list, I see that athiests are more sterotypical than almost any other types of people.
Yeah you hit the nail on the head diddn’t you.
Oh and the “Miracles” you speak of, im intrigued for I have not seen or heard about a single one.
So christianity is about belief ( How convientient ) and you think we are to scared to believe in something bigger than ourselves right?
Oh no not the bipolar future of heaven and hell, its infintiy is to much to bear.
And hey just because I dont believe in a large God in our image ( Wow imagine that in our image ) dosent mean that the general rules
of christianity arn’t sound and the guy who made them up was a thinker and manipulater of his time.
Some would say a mean for his ideal end.
INFORMATION
Was Raised by books
I have a iq of 145
And I live in New Zealand
gtapro91: thank you for confirming several myths at once (3, 4 and 5, at least).
And you reminded me of another one, which isn’t on the list: that atheists refuse God simply because they don’t want rules and want to “sin” as much as they want. Which, of course, makes no sense at all, since the the definition of “sin” implies the existence of some higher power, and we don’t believe in one. It’s related to myth 5, but I think it qualifies as a separate myth. Maybe I should update the list…
Indeed. Why is it that most fundamentalists on the Internet (note: I don’t mean all Christians are like this) are rude and can’t spell?
Okay, I confess, I didn’t read all the previous posts so this may have been answered already, if so, I apologize in advance. Can somebody explain this to me? What would be the most important thing to have for a species thrive and continue? Sexual organs, right? So, if a bolt of lightning struck a pool of primordial goo and it came to life, how does the species survive past the first being with no way to replicate itself? Also, in school I was taught that one of the laws of science was that you could neither create nor destroy matter. If that’s so, where did all the matter that’s here come from to begin with? Thanks!
Unicellular organisms were the first organisms on earth, they don’t need sex organs because they don’t have sex, they reproduce by dividing. This reproduces an entire new organism (It’s making a copy of itself).
The big-bang covers most of the matter question and I know how most christians love that theory ;P
http://mediatheek.thinkquest.nl/~ll125/en/bigbang.htm
I agree with snorzle on all except one thing.
When and on which planet the first microbes came about.
If you work with probability.
Then its far more probable that life exists right throughout the universe and life on earth was seeded by a meteor.
I take this stand due to the fact that life coming about on the spot is so improbable the the life in the universe
far outweighs it in the chance of it happening. (Which also origionated from the life on the spot thing)
I know its a well know theory.
But most of us only find out that such theories exit after we think of them ourselves.
Don’t get me wrong guys, I’m just trying to understand the thought process that goes into not believing in God. I have questioned his existance at times in the past until I took chemistry, biology, and anatomy and physiology in college. After some thought I began to realize just how improbable that all this stuff just happened on it’s own …all by accident or coincidence.
So, here goes… How did the “very first” unicellular organism gain the ability to divide itself i.e reproduce? It would’ve had to be created with the ability to do that right? (I think it’s called asexual reproduction… like worms) Was it’s DNA also fully formed at it’s creation so that it’s twin would be just exactly like itself?
I know I must sound pretty stupid, but where did the empty universe come from? Even an empty universe got it’s beginnings somehow, right? Here’s another dumb question, why isn’t the moon 10 feet thick in space dust instead of just a couple of inches if the Earth and moon are billions(?) of years old? Thanks again. -Tracy
Well firstly for biology.
The only reason in my opinion why life is here is because it can.
Yoda almost said “can or cannot there is no why”.
Now because it can is not good enough at all so here goes.
The big bang theory may only be partially right but no theory will ever be 100%.
Personally I believe that there are infintie such explosions happening every “second”.
And life would also have to have been created billions of times over through the infinte spectrum of time
before a creature ( I mean mirobe type organism ) was created that sucessfull replicated itself which supports my
life was deffinately not concieved on earth theory due to lack of time. ( at least not the earth we know of )
also dna was deffinately not in the first microbe the first microbe is like the first computer. Ever seen one ?
and only its decendants survived. Now why all microbes on earth all have dna
( apart from the red microbes that rained down on india in 2001 which are confirmed to replicate without dna.
Findings of which to be officially posted start of next year. )
its simple you did biology so all I should have to say is Founder effect.
To the moon dust.
When the big bang happened planets did not explode out of the furnace of pure energy.
Individual atoms instead flew out in all directions and gravity eventually ( over unfathomable ammounts of time )
brought the atoms together ( hence the globe structure and the poles, its also the reason why planets rotate )
this may explain why there is only so much dust as when more dust is “collected” its compressed by millions of years of gravity and becomes part of the planet.
And dont think billions of years when you think about such problems.
Try a googleplex to the power of a googleplex.
Which by the way dosent mean dick in the spectrum of infinity. ( if time exists at all )
Now I will not attmept to convert you or to disprove god as it is useless to try and it dosent really matter,
you seem to be a healthy open minded person so religion is perfecty fine.
But I ask you this are my “far out” Theorys less probable,
Than a human ( remember we were made in his image )
who is all knowing ( do you know one of those humans? )
and can create the entirety of infinty at his whim while at the same time
never revealing himself to us. ( also u ever met a human who dosent gloat )
Want to know anymore im happy to elabourate.
I would just like to thank you for that article. Being an Atheist in a prodominently Christian (Baptist) area, I find it difficult to even share my beliefs with anyone. It’s sad, because all these Christians like me, but if they found out I am an Atheist, they would shun me just because of all of those myths listed above. Thank you for getting out our message, whether they actually believe anything you said or not, at least they’ll read it. Thanks.
My question is how anyone can believe in Christianity or any other religion? I do not know if I am an atheist or not. Maybe you can tell me!
I may believe in something…but I do not know what. I question how anything was started and as soon as you give me an answer I ask “what was before that?”.
I have been questioning religion since I was five years old when my mother told me that there is no Santa Clause. The first thing I asked was “Well then what about God?” Throughout elementary school I would cry and night and worry about His existence. How much of a let down would it be if I died believing in God and there was nothing?. Since then, the only thing that has helped to comfort me is to believe in nothing and therefore I expect nothing and cannot be let down in death.
As I have grown older I have had more questions that have plagued my mind. What happens to all the people who believe in a different God that another group?? Are they all going to hell? How do you know which one is the right one?
Then I begin to think of the universe a little more and realize that the furthest humans have ever gone, maybe seen, even how far we will ever go may be only 1 billionth of the size of the entire universe. If we can only go this far how can we begin to say that you can know who God is and be convinced your right.
As for the improbability of having humans created by a couple micro organisms…it is very improbably and that is exactly the point. There may be only a handful of planets in the universe that have the right conditions for life to thrive and probably only a 1 in infinity chance of them growing into us. It is even less than very rare and personally I just get the feeling that this makes US special for being able to survive…not some dude with rule over earth that created us cause he was bored of chillin by himself.
Furthermore, I see the ability for us to invent God much more plausible than Him inventing us. Just like Santa Clause if no one ever told me that he wasn’t real and my mom secretly put gifts under the Christmas tree every year I might still believe in him too. As for God it sure seems like it is the same thing, a story someone made up and then the guy died before he could tell everyone that he was just fucking with them. Plus if I were this age 100 years ago I would be much more likely to believe because of my lack of knowledge about the world. Looking at the sky thinking that heaven was on top of the clouds or so much more that we now know that could have been explained my God back then.
Maybe if I were raised to believe in nothing I would want to believe in something but being raised a Catholic as much as I would like to believe in the God I cannot bring myself to have this faith. It is almost the opposite in that I have the same feeling believers call Faith, which only means I believe that I am right! And I have faith that all religion believers are wrong.
What am I called? I do not believe in God, but know there so much that we don’t know that I cannot prove or disprove anything. Although I think I can disprove the God most other people believe in, I cannot disprove a universal God because we do not know enough about the universe. Although I question this type of higher power I do not think that He would give two shits if I killed someone, I would never do such a thing because I do believe in morals and to act the way that church teaches us to act without forcing all the God bull on us.
That is all I can say for now. Please Comment on this because I believe that questioning others beliefs and trying to understanding them is the only way to truly believe your own.
Jess
I do not know anything about which category would be classified, Athiest or whatever. These are just my own opinions.
Some people believe that mankind was created by a god, others understand that gods are an invention of mankind. I strongly suspect that the “others” have more brains and use them.
Indeed. Why is it that most fundamentalists on the Internet (note: I don’t mean all Christians are like this) are rude and can’t spell? Because those that are capable of forming sentences in a tactful manner have more sense than to troll Atheist blogs?
Dunno about you lot, but I find the most annoying myth about atheists is the one that says that morality is divinely inspired and thus we atheists have no morality. Social conditioning and culture is a non-issue, apparently.
incredible. absolutely incredible. at the age of 12, when asked about what my beliefs were, and given the options, i researched them all and found that only the term “atheist” fully described what i truly believed in. as a lifetime student of the physical sciences, i find myself constantly grappling with constant continuities with infinite conceptual spans - which are ofcourse impossible to completely comprehend with our limited number of neurons. hence these limitless possibilities are reduced to what is simply a convenient singularity - god. these myths about atheists are truly a necessity for society as a whole, and indeed it is a way for people to realise that the way forward is through fully realising the humans’ potential and not cutting it short by restricting our communal growth to simply relate every currently unanswered question mark with a faceless creator.
in conclusion, from what i’ve read on these forums, everything that can be said has been said already. in relation to rebuttals put forth by believers, i implore you to scratch below the surface of what you believe to be. ask questions, and when they’re not answered directly, look elsewhere, open your mind fully to possibilities that you may never fully understand - because that is simply what is human. the constant struggle to understand and draw meaning from life. don’t merely say it’s “god” and close the book. keep reading…
Tracy: your reason for believing in God seems to be “I don’t know how this came to be; surely it must be God’s work.” That’s known as the “God of the Gaps” (God is the explanation for whatever mankind doesn’t know or understand - yet), which I’ve written about in the past, and will write about again very soon - I have a new approach I want to present here. Check back for a new post, in a bunch of hours.
Great discussion.
I have no beliefs - I find them a terrible anathema. One does not have to believe in that which is before his eyes - only in that which cannot be seen. So, one comes to the conclusion that one has to aggressively and positively eschew belief in order to live with eyes wide open. (This seems to be a relatively radical position, since I find that most people openly accuse me of lying or being disingenuous when I tell them that I have no beliefs.)
I add these thoughts because the implications of having no beliefs means that it I am neither a theist nor a an atheist - i.e., I don’t believe that there is no God, and I don’t belief in the anthropomorphic projection that is commonly psychologically beheld by believers.
Life is a beautiful mystery… when left un-dulled by easy superstition.
Athiesm / agnosticsm is a copout
what boggls me, is why even a christian would go to church?
why would god want you to waste any time inside, when its a beautiful day out? i mean, if its a t-storm, then your probobly not gonna go anyways, in the winter, have you ever looked out over a snow covered field ? its glorious. you can go skiing.
in the summer, its nice and sunny, and you can go outside and play a pickup game of something. i think thatn most people understand this, but do not accept it. eventually they forget it when they get older, and thats why churches are full of old people and minors that are draged there to “impress upon them christianity”
ps, i just woke up, so ive probobly had bad grammer and such. sorry
ummad @ 8:04 -
You may or may not have been directing that comment to me, but I’d like to clarify that I am not an agnostic. (I agree that agnosticism is essentially meaningless and an intellectual copout.)
I am, rather, a very passionate seeker who is aware of his mortality. And without saying too much about it (Truth does not lend itself well to linear, thought-based verbosity - as ALL religions demonstrate all too well,) let’s just say I’ve found a few, ahem, secrets lying about and am enjoying the sacred during the only time that such is possible… while I’m still alive.
I am an atheist. When I was a kid I went to church and was enthralled by the stories of Jesus but as I got older and began to question the teachings of the bible and realised that it was a fictionalised account of events which were designed to keep the uneducated masses in line. I now believe that to the case with all other religions. I have no predjudices..I think all religions are bad..although I know that all people who practice their religion are not. It seems to me that it is not the religion that people practice that is the problem..it is their intolerance of other religions which causes problems. However, lets not think that if we were all atheist then the problems of the world would be solved. This is not the case, sadly, human beings will inevitably find some other reason to hate their neighbour, nationalism; borders; race; lifestyle; football team, ad finitum. The horrors perpetrated in the name of religion going on in the world at this time would continue I’m afraid..not on religious grounds, but certainly by some other.
Well this is just a small point, but if you want someone to respect you, shouldn’t you respect them? Keep in mind I’m certainly not persecuting someone, but that whole article was similar to saying “Stop calling me an idiot you morons!” which seemed rather hypocritical to me at least.
If it was just you venting frustration and this wass more of a personal grievence, then it hardly seems worthy of an intellectual debate when the initial arguement contains such blatant mudslinging.
Q: you have a point. I started it nicely, but when writing it (except for some later editing, it was all written in one sitting) I began to get really annoyed at some things that Christians do or say. I think that changing it now would perhaps be hypocritical, but, if you want to, you’ll find that the newer articles are less “incensed”.
Note to self: don’t get too angry at what I’m writing.
Atheism or Christianity? That is the question with which I struggle constantly. I’m always reading articles and watching programs regarding the theories of darwinism, the big bang theory, infinite alternate universes etc., and it all makes sense to me. On the other hand, after going through college courses in chemistry and biology, and seeing the properties of atoms and subparticles, and how they fall into such an organized periodic table, the complexity of the eukaryotic cell and the unique computer-like coded DNA found in each one of us, it is hard to attribute this universe solely on chance alone.
I’m familiar with all the major religious beliefs and histories, and have decided that Christianity makes the most convincing argument. Not to say I believe in it, but I ponder what do I have to gain or lose by choosing Christianity? I really don’t have to change a whole lot. Just give up a few vices and devote a little time each day to God, and I end up gaining a life in eternal paradise if it turns out to be true. For atheism, I get to do whatever I want during my life on Earth, within the limits of the local government’s laws, but if I’m wrong I get to spend an eternity suffering. Either way I can still accomplish the goals I may have during my life here. So why not choose Christianity? Guess it comes down to my lack of faith; atheists have faith there is no God, Christians have faith there is.
i was born and raised a jew, latly i began to question the idea of god, and the more and more i read into atheism & jeuadism, i find athism the more and more correct, i have to say that i agree with alot of what is said here, and that i think religion will be the downfall of humanity, look at all the anger and pain that it brings.
I am an athiest also. Around these parts, (you can tell where I live by my name) you have to be careful who you discuss these matters with. It can affect job, family, etc. However, was having a talk once with a Christian friend who knew about my athiesm. We were having a talk about morals and values. His contention was that I had learned my values from the Bible, (having been raised in a nominally christian family)
I tried to explain to him that basic human values are inherint in our psychological makeup. He was not convinced, so this is what I did. I had him lay his hand on the table and I smacked it hard with a TV remote. Then I asked him if that hurt? “Well of course it hurt”, he said “but what did that prove?”. I then told him that you do not need a book to tell you that hurting someone is bad. I know that something that hurts me will hurt someone else if I do it to them. I think this is one of the fallacies of organized religion, that somehow we are at heart so callus and ignorant that somebody had to tell us how to treat others. I told him my values and morality are based on my humanity, not on a religous belief. Comments please? By the way, he didn’t get it.
Here’s a bunch of odd things Christians that I know of have done or said:
1. When asked what she thought about other religions that also follow God (Catholic), she said, “They will probably go to hell because they’re Catholic, not Christian.”
2. Every response to ambiguous questions about life is answered by the Bible. Why can’t you steal? Because the Bible said so. Why can’t you be gay? Because the Bible said so. Etc.
3. In a philosophy class where there was a discussion as to whether all people are innately selfish, one student based her whole argument on the Bible. “People are not selfish because the Bible states that you should love others blah blah blah.” A counter-arguer said, “Well, say you give a kid a lollipop because you are unselfish and want the kid to be happy. Aren’t you acting selfish because you want to be acknowledged as being unselfish. Would you give the kid a lollipop again if he took out a gun, mugged you, and shot you in the knees?” Her response was something stupid and used the Bible as proof. Seriously, without the Bible, Christians really have no defense.
4. In my former college, UC Berkeley, there are occasionally some Christian protestors holding up huge banners (HUGE, LIKE 8 X 5 FEET) that say, “YOU WILL GO TO HELL FOR NOT BEING CHRISTIAN.”
5. This Christian girl said her sisters are going to hell for not being as Christian as she is.
6. If you ask a Christian about 9/11, they’ll say something stupid like “God is angry for the sin that the world has done and is punishing everybody.”
7. If good person dies in a very awful way, a Christian will say, “Now he is at peace and with God.” Riiiiiight, whatever helps you sleep night.
8. Some Christians won’t get involved in a relationship with a non-Christian.
9. John Kerry said he’s Christian just to get more votes. I don’t think a non-Christian can ever become President and if he or she does, they will never admit it because they will lose the election, guaranteed.
10. Christians are against embryonic stem cell research because it’s killing life. Ok now, if you accidently put a 12 cell human blastula in a petri dish full of a billion yeast cells and place that on a benson burner, is killing that “human being” really so much different than killing the bunch of other cells are only different because of a few less chromosomes?
11. All Christians are against abortion (correct me if i’m wrong). Which is better, killing a 48 week old fetus or letting it grow into an infant, having it thrown into a dumpster because the child bearer didn’t want it, someone finding it and putting it into an orphanage, letting it grow up without parents and eventually become miserable and as pathetic as his/her parents probably were? Not to mention he/she will probably accidently have a child and be unable to support him/her so the cycle continues on and on until one day, he/she decides to bring an uzi into a bank and kill a dozen people, he/she gets the death penalthy, and the cycle finally stops after 3-4 generations.
12. Christians prohibit premarital sex and you will go to hell if you do so. I’m not making an excuse or anything but humans are technically animals and I find it wierd that we’re the only ones that make ourselves feel bad when we want to do only what’s natural. Guys usually start getting erections when they hit puberty which is usually 10 years or so before they get married. Why would God torture us in such a horrible way!?
13. I asked a Christian what heaven would be like and he said, “Oh, it will be really fun!” Hahaha, I just found that really funny for some reason. Does that mean there will be orgy’s and plenty of booze? If everything in heaven is regulated by the laws of Christianity, then I would think it would be pretty damn boring. I think I’d rather go to hell, it might make the afterlife more interesting.
14. The Da Vinci Code is banned in some areas that are strongly Christian. This is absolutely in line with the Christian belief, that there is one person that rules us and doing anything else is wrong. How is this so much different than a tyrant? Would a stem cell laboratory ban a scientist who comes in with the Bible in his backpack?
14. Lastly, even if athiests can’t really PROVE without using a little faith that the Big Bang existed, that there was a primordial soup, and all that junk, there is enough evidence that we have discovered that disproves the existence of God by disputing the Bible. I don’t see any dinosaurs in the Bible? How is it that we can date the Earth to 4.5 billions years but the Bible says that the universe was created 10000 years ago or some really low number? THere are just too many things that disprove the “facts” in the Bible. And why would God try to deceive the people by planting these fossils and stuff to convince us to be non believers.
I’m not so sure that a person is born with the inate ability to show empathy. I personally believe that we are born selfish and think that the world revolves around us… and it does for the first few years or, in my case, until my little brother came along and took away my throne. A little while back I watched a documentary about “wild children”, children that were raised by dogs or other animals. If they weren’t “rescued” by the age of (I think) 6 or 7 years old they never “learned” to have empathy for other people as well as never having learned to speak. Okay, I’m ready, let me have it.
Pedro,
You claim to be happy and content. Good for you. Why make the list, then? I mean, why do you care what believers think about you?
Xavier: And why do you Christians care about what we don’t believe? Oh yes, cause you’re trying to save us.
Personally, I think the list is meant more for athiests than for Christians. It’s one of those lists that are made because they are funny and true, just like if there’s a list that talks about LA people and says, “You won’t drive if the walk is more than 5 minutes.”
Edit: “you WILL drive”
Tracy,
I’m guessing you were responding to my post, so let me clarify what the discussion was about. My friends contention was that without the teachings of the Bible, we, as human beings, would have no moral compass to guide our lives. I was making a point to him that human experience, without a “textbook on human behavior”, could indeed lead to the same morality and values he espouses. I did not mean that we do this each ourselves alone in every life. Certainly guidance from others is part of the human continuum. But we get this guidance from other human beings, not from a metaphysical entity out in the ether.
something i’ve noticed:
atheists will usually start arguing for thier beliefs but when a few “religious nuts” step up to respond to the flames, the atheist will pull the “you’re pushing your beliefs on me!!! Momma No!!!” response.
And on the last page someone said “Religion is the single greatest root of all evil.”.
I agree radical jew-killing muslims are evil…
but other than that this is the dumbest comment with the least support i have ever heard
Oops! I understand what you meant now, sorry about that. Here’s another question that will show off my ignorance even more… Does atheism allow for even the remotest possiblity that there “may” exist a being greater than us however remote that possibility may be? I guess what I’m saying is that, isn’t it being just a tiny bit close minded to rule out the very possibility that there just might be a God? To me, it takes a massive amount of faith to believe everything that scientists theorize. They all seem to start from the stand point of “Well, there is no God so here’s what probably happened…” and they usually end with something like “it’s just a theory, we will never really know…” .. I *still* don’t know how the universe got it’s start, even after reading over the “Big Bang” website last night. I mean, you can’t create something from nothing, right? Thanks again.
Never said I was a Christian. But to answer your question anyway, Christians care because that’s what they do. I was just curious as to why a self-assured atheist would need to post a list about something every atheist already knows.
What is interesting is that you say that you do not hate christians or christianity. Apperently you hate both. It seems that you have the taste of christian blood on your tounge and that if your best friend turned christian (oh no!) then you would totally think they was an idiot and you would loose interest in being friends with them. The mere fact that you were so emotionally distraught about christianity and how much that religion has oppressed your beliefs shows that you hate it. If you met me you wouldn’t know that I AM christian. You would not know it because I can think for myself and I am not held back by these ideals you so thoughtfully made us aware of! I do not care for this, every other shoutwire post that makes it big turns out to have some god bashing shit that is getting tiring. I do not let people know my faith because if I did, you would not leave me alone and you would call me stupid and reject me as a lesser of society. Do not tell me that there is no god because you cannot know for sure. If you are able to prove it then I would not be in denial! I do not deny that there is a chance that God does not exist but I am not about to believe. How can you deal with someone like me? A christian that is nothing like you just mentioned? I have never though YOU PEOPLE idiots. I think you are entitled to your own opinions and if I was to find out that you had different beliefs, then I would not bother you. I am not your typical christian and normally I will not even respond to this. But it just aggreviates me that you hate me because I am Christian. It aggreviates me that you, just like 140,000 other people felt it necessary to voice your opinion. And, though I do not mind that fact annoying, its that there was such a huge response to it. What is this? You don’t hate us right? What about me, I sit right between you two, the atheist and the conservative christians. Shouldn’t you people who boast about having the right to think for themselves rethink what you just said? I have a right think for myself and I believe deeply that God does exist. Hate me, see if I care. I will not press my religion on you. What I find that Bush is doing is just down right white trash, ghetto, he said she said bullshit. He does not represent christianity, he never will. He is just like all those Muslims who claim jihad on anything that farts. And believei t or not, probably not.. I accept Muslims too! I may not agree with what they believe and I may not agree with what you believe, but I find good in both of you. I accept everyone for who they are, not what they think!! If you think christianity is stupid, well good! We have more important issues than how you think that I think that atheists are bad.
I know this post is rather random in nature, and I apoligize for it!
I do realize what you mean, why you think this way. Honestly, I hate the majority of christians myself. They are rich white guys and rich white women who own Wal-Mart and claim to be christian. They are people whom are currupted because of money and who will go to lengths to get it. Everything they do is in the name of christianity and really, its not. My father once had a church (yes he is a preacher) where, once he got there, he tried so hard to bring people in. In my opinion he is one of the best preachers just for that because he stood his ground against these christians who apprently own this church. They literally told him that if he didn’t start bringing poor people and people they didn’t like into this church (and trust me, everyone they didn’t like didn’t stay), he could go f himself. Needless to say, that church is in a family who is one of the worst I have ever met. The church picked on me because I was different, they had the gaull to tell me that I was the son of satan and yelled at dad because I was up past 11 on a saturday night. So you tell me who has it worse! I put up with all of that and I know where you are coming from. I hate those types of christians just as much as you do. I think they are idiots thinking they can call God’s name for anything they do. They treated us like shit just because dad wanted to expand the church, isn’t that what christianity is about?
So tell me now, are you attacking me as a person who has strong beliefs in something you do not agree with? Or are you attacking those persons who are mentioned above? I realize this post is going to get a lot of bashing, but I am ready. I believe there is a god, I am a man of science (can that be?). I have not told you that you are stupid for the way you think, I am just aggreviated that there have been so many posts about this. You want to know what I compare this one to? Songs on the ready played 5 times a day (I hate RHCP now), Linux vs. Windows (both are great operating systems depending on what your needs are), and Bush bashing. We hear this stuff constantly and I do not participate in any of them. I have my opinions, but because not one person who replys to this post will even take into consideration that perhaps christianity is possibly true (I am not saying that you are wrong), I do not readily share them.
Thanks for taking the time to read this. I hope you realize that not all christians and United States citizens are bad. Not all US cit. love Bush and what he has done in the name of Christianity and I hope you will be more leniant on the next christian you meet. I do not hate you for what you believe in and I will never call you an idiot. My idea is this: you may be right.
Tracy,
Again I must surmise that you are responding to me as you don’t address your comment to me. Please do so as I enjoy this repartee and would like to be sure I am engaging in a discussion. As to your questions. I cannot speak for all athiests. There is no manual that tells us what to think or believe. I am not so presumptuous as to think I know all the answers. What I do believe is this; no living person has any more proof of the existence of a supreme being than I have. And “isn’t it being just a tiny bit close minded” to rule out the possibility that there might not be a god? Also, scientists do not expect you to take it on faith that they are right. A good scientist expects to have his theories and ideas questioned and challenged to prove, with evidence and verifiable results, that he is correct. Also, I have never EVER heard or read a scientific statement or theory start with “Well, there is no God so …” That is just nonsense. Sounds like a Christian talking point to me. Lastly, nobody knows for sure how the universe began, thats what theories are all about. Sorry my response takes so long, I type kinda slow.
“I believe there is a god, I am a man of science (can that be?).” I think Einstein was Christian?
To summarize this long discussion, it seems like the consesus is that both Atheism and Christianity require some faith just because there’s no way of knowing how everything started. Christianity has its Bible and scientists believe somehow that the world was created by the equation Nothing = Matter + Antimatter (My science is rusty so this may be wrong). I forgot if they proved this or not but I believe they have since they have witnessed such things occurring in practice. To say that the world was created this way though is still kinda far fetched, and this is coming from a sciency person.
There is one key difference though. Scientists have developed all their theories based on some kind of evidence though it may not be very complete. There is evidence that the Big Bang could have occurred (background radiation) and all those primordial soup theories are based on laboratory experiments. It’s not like they all of a sudden said, “Hey, I think we came out of Campbell’s Chunk Soup!” On the contrary, Christians have developed their beliefs from a freakin book that popped out of nowhere.
Have Christians ever thought that their religion might eventually be phased out like all the previous religions? What makes their religion so special?
and also what makes you think that it had to come from somewhere.
time isint real the universe has no start and no end because time is an illusion.
I mean you ask where it came from due to the fact that something cant come from nothing.
which proves god creation ability wrong.
I do not provide answers, EVER.
Its all speculation.
I just wanted to share my opinion from my personal beliefs of some of your myths.
5. Atheists actually know, deep inside, that there’s a God, as that’s perfectly obvious; they are simply too proud and arrogant to admit the existence of something greater than themselves. — I don’t see how somebody could simply believe there is a God. To want to believe in Him or not is a concious decision of lifestyle. To truely seek God is a path of wisdom and dedication, if you don’t you live a life seeking other things which will never satisfy — fame, money, relationships, etc. If you don’t live a life for God you will use your ~70 years seeking fun and exhileration. (99.9% of the world would probably find nothing wrong with that, it’s just a personal belief) aka living life to the fullest. (therefore, not nilhistlic) Furthermore, while people aren’t born with the knowledge that there is a god, I believe people are created inertly good. Whether or not people are caring or not and their level of morality depend on their upbringing. But in that upbringing, people respond to positive reinforcement with joy and punishment and negative reinforcement with [at least] a lack of joy. All feel joy the same way, and all like being happy, no matter their religious background. (Atheists neither cold nor inmmoral) It’s simply that this world is full of sin (not ‘the devils world –its still Gods) that sometimes when personal interests conflict with those of others, you may not have much reason to give up your own wishes, especially if there is no friendship at steak.
15. Atheists are stubborn and closed-minded. — If you have a belief in something, it is likely you are going to be stubborn and closed minded… especially if that thing defines most of what you are (speaking about Christians actually). But from your tone in general, you seem to contradict 1, 10, and 11 as you feel bad for most people that believe in a God [of any sort] and wish them to see what you would call ‘the truth.’ But again, religion is a concious decision, and just as you have chosen to believe there is no God, many choose to do the oposite and as [I'm assuming] an American you should respect their right to believe whatever they wish. We hold our belief there is a God as much as youd say there isn’t one, and I believe you have better things to do than fight us to the death for it.
besides, if you went around saying theres no God, won’t people be as pissed at you as they are at jahovas witnesses?
13. Atheists live their lives in constant fear of death. — You don’t fear death because you don’t think about it (not that you should) but because you believe that this is your only life and you have nothing to die for, you’d likely choose to do something bad to save your own tail. Christians cherish life as much, if not more, than non-christians. We aren’t supposed to believe that this life is just a test before the real thing. It’s simply that this life isn’t perfect, and the world is full of sin (we can agree on that much can’t we?) and no longer decide to put our hopes here. We’ve come to the understanding that wrongdoing has been around and will always be here as long as the Earth exists but believe that if we set our hearts to follow under a perfect diety, a better world awaits us. (that was part of
Also its easy to think that Atheists want to stop faiths since you believe it to be a waste of time. I can see that to you, Christianity (and other religions) are a diversion against the goals humans should have, and deviate our time from truly useful things. It is hard to see why you would put so much effort into being atheists, rather than agnostic, if you did not have any religious experiences. Also, once people band together to create a perfect world and more agnostics and staggering faithees run with that idea, it is likely that religions will be seen as opposing this dream as we don’t put our hopes in this world.
12. Atheists are incapable of feeling awe at simple things, like a beautiful sunset, as they see everything in terms of cold science, instead of miracles. — not all atheists are scientists, and just like death, nobody walks around constantly thinking about these things. Also, science was originally created to study and understand the many creations of God so really, we shouldnt be enemies– I know I’d still treat you like any other friend of mine.
And if you want a place where Atheists can gather, set up a chatroom or fourm. I believe as of right now, you guys are too much of a rare breed to set up ‘churches’ across the country. But I don’t see how it would be any different than any other social gathering… you could go around and convert people I guess….
I think it’s good to point out here what atheist actually means, rather than the use of the word as a substitute for the word heretic.
Athesism by definition is purely the rejection of established organised theological belief, what then an athesit actually believes is arbitrary. There are, of course, atheist groups like humanists, but any group that peddles a specific belief is by definition a religion.
I’d point out that athesists are often quite agnostic, but compared to agnostics have some certainity of their rejection of religion, and would identify themselves as atheist. Agnostic are really people who just don’t want discuss it.
As an atheist I view most religious beliefs and teachings (particularily the missinterpretation) as missing the mark. It’s ludicrous to assume that we have all the answers to life the universe and everything, it’s even more preposterious to claim we can know ‘god’.
Don’t get me wrong there are some good religious teachings: damn good stuff people should live their lives buy. It’s funny trying to put the question to a christian.. “ok I know you don’t believe in it, but you can’t deny that Karma isn’t a good philosophy to live your life by…”
The reason I reject religion especially conventional christianity is the glaring unrefutable flaws and hippocracies:
1. if there are over 2000 passages in the bible, some explicit, instructing christians to help the poor… why are christians predominatley right wing? and the most vehemont christians the most theiving lying right-wing extremists? that bothers me.
2. Gospels excluded from the bible, including the Gospel of Judas and Mary Magdalene, Thomas and others. Ok surposedly these were heresy, but actually reading them - bizzarely they are well coroberated by content in the bible. Infact in the 1960s the Vatician officially renounced the claim that Mary Magadalene was a prostitute under pressure from theologians who showed that the bible didn’t support the claim. I advise
3. By some estimates the slaughter of innocent lives the Vatican is responisble for makes the holocaust look like a picnic… most of them women…
4. Love thy neighbour… what if your neighbour is a muslim and wants a harem? What if they are homosexual and want a civil union and a cloned child? Your instructed to love them. Yes one of the ten commandments is effectively a tolerance message.
5. Most christians believe Eve was fashioned from Adams rib - this is infact a mistranslation from original text. a correct translation is she was made from “one side” of adam. There are more ‘mistakes’ in relgion..
6. Ok this is a little off topic and I sound like I’m attacking religion… what my point is really that these points contextualise the next point I’m making:
pogicraft: Interesting to read what you had to say from a religious perspective, but I’d like to counter your 5) remark:
I think deep down alot of religious people actually don’t truly believe, they know in their hearts what they believe just isn’t right, and that the truth may be different. And their greatest fear? That the truth might just be unknowable.
This psychological conflict triggers all the horrid behaviour of religious people. They deeply want to make others believe because they don’t truly believe- They fear, hate and want to harass and punish people that don’t believe what they do. Nothing but an intrinsic fear of otherness, to the point of dellusion.
Thus the atheism labels and myths slot us into the category of otherness.
Yet I have nothing but the deepest respect for people of mild faith. The really good people, who do good things because of what they believe and have nothing but tolerance and compassion for everyone and everything. But they are a minority…
The worst harm I’ll ever do is speak my mind…
Ignore it and you won’t be harmed…
ummm, i havent read every post simply because its like 4:30 in the morning here. you dont have to believe this, i heard it a while ago and the more i think about it the more i find it to be true, especially in my own life, but its human nature to follow something, by definition to worship something. the question is, what or who are you following, im a christian but i hate admitting it because there have been so many stupid people in the past and today as well that claim to be christians but do not follow the teachings that Jesus was ACTUALLY saying. tonight i spent some time with some friends of mine who were all drunk and some of them were even gay! *gasp*. some people would say that doing this would make not a christian, i agree with them, because i dont want to be a christan the way it is defined today. i would rather just follow the teachings of Jesus, love people with my life and love God with everything i have, can you call me stupid for that? sure. can you tell me im wasting my time? sure. but ive been to the place where my life feels empty and although you may have heard it before nothing fulfills the way Jesus does. theres a hole in my life that my dad left when he left me and never raised me or taught me how to live, ive tried to fill that hole with a lot of things, when im with a girl doing whatever, the hole is still there, when im infront of a crowd, performing and they love it, the hole is still there, when im sitting at my computer jerking off the hole is still there. sorry to be graphic but its the blunt truth. the only thing that has ever filled the hole in my life and in my heart is when im sitting in the peace that God will give if you seek his face, with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind. the question then is, “is it worth it to let God fill the hole?” i believe it is.
you can be an athiest and follow teachings that have only been around for, i dont know, 100 years? (i havent really done my research there and i appologise) or you can follow Jesus which people have been doing since the world was created. there was a pharasee who said to his other little pharasee friends in the bible, that if this Jesus thing is real, then it will last, but if its not, then people will realize it and it will die out. does this not seem logical? well its been 2000 years…thats a lot…
as a christian i am constantly questioning my faith and God, i was not taught like you have said to blindly follow something, and just accept something as truth just because the preacher said it, this is completely non-biblical, i try to test everything i am taught, i want to know what i am following. there have been too many preachers who are complete and total tools for me to just believe them, one rule of thumb for me is, if thier on TV, be very careful, be very weary. im not a stupid person, and i still believe that i can know God and have a relationship with him, i mean hes God, why not? if God is all powerful, what makes it so hard to believe that he has the power to connect with each person on an extemely personal level? whenever i hear a christian say, “i just can fathom the idea that God can do that.” i shake my head, HES GOD!!!! its so frustrating isnt it? cuz hes God and were not, i, as a christian, am not called to be perfect, thats his job. i am only called to be on his path. im sorry if i went on a rant or started preaching but its the only thing in life im this passionate about, so dont you dare tell me its wrong, if your a scientist and your passion is physics there is no way id go and tell you that it doesnt exist when you clearly know that it does.
What I found interesting about the article “16 common myths about aetheists” is that you seem to be assuming that all Christians think alike and none have the intelligence to properly study and research their beliefs and the beliefs of others in the way you seem to think you have.
“Now, dear believer, ask yourself how many atheist books, magazines or essays you have read.” It’s part of the training. I’m not a minister or priest or imam or anything but I do know that to get to those positions you don’t just turn up and ask if you can do it, there’s years of training. I can’t speak for the U.S.A. but I know ministers here in the U.K. have often had to do a degree in theology to get their position. And that’s not just to say Christian theology, it all systems of belief (and non-belief).
“…a unified group, like a church.” um…have you looked outside the window lately? seen any news. Catholics and protestants have been blowing each other up for years but recently even factions within the same Churchs have been split over key issues.
Christians aren’t one big group, an authodox Greek Christian wouldn’t neccesarily ‘fit it’ with the views of say an Evangelical Baptist for example, neither would Anglicans for that matter, or Methodists etc. There are many types of Protestant Christianity and Catholic Christianity, in Ethiopia the Christian beliefs and rituals are almost indistinguishable from Judaism to the untrained eye.
Many intelligent level headed people have looked at the evidence and decided that they believe rather than dis-believe. It doesn’t make them less intelligent than you or less well read, it just means they have a different opinion.
Seems to me, after reading most of the posts on here, the experiences the majority of these athiests have had or read about have been with people that claim to be Christians but really aren’t. So many people in America say they are Christian just because their parents or family are, or they attend church and read their Bible. If you know the teachings of the Bible, you know it takes more than this or even just simply believing in God to become a true Christian. I go to church sometimes, and when I encounter people that are true followers of the Word of God, I can tell there is definitely something different about them that sets them apart from the rest of the world.
I myself just haven’t been able to pray to a God that I have no proof exists, but I cannot rule it out as a possibility. In fact it takes infinite amounts greater in courage and discipline to have faith there is a God, when there is no undeniable evidence, than to simply believe there is not. So I give props to those who have chosen to believe in God through their own research, not the ones that just had it shoved down their throat as a child.
This is all pointless. Neither side will convince the other. This article was wrote because it was ment to a) Make religious people mad and, b) Tell them how wrong they are. I see no other reason for it. You can say that it was done so people would seen us in a differnt light, but its not true. On the other hand we can see that people that are religious people are doing the same thing here. Telling atheist just how wrong they are. There was never any point in writing this unless you really need others to validate your belief. No one will convnice you that there is a God. You don’t want to believe. As with people that belive in religon, there will be no convincing them either. The want to believe, as si there right. As is yours. I see the same thing with gay and lesbian vs. religon. If you really have a belief in some thing there seems no reason to force response from the oppsiing group. Unless your insecure with what you believe.
As for me belief. Thats none of your business. I believe what I believe.
Leave it at that.