- Atheists hate Christians and Christianity. No, we don’t. Personally, I do hate the atrocities that have been committed in the name of religion, the dishonesty of most religions, and the way that they encourage people not to think or question, and not to trust or use their minds. But I don’t dislike someone just because of their religion.
- Most atheists started out as Christians, and stopped believing because of some bad experience with other Christians. Or maybe we simply started to question, to wonder what happened when we applied the standards of logic, reason and burden of proof to religion, as we already did to everything in our lives. Or, perhaps, we were never believers at all. It happens, you know.
- Atheists have no sense of morality, since morality comes from God. Ah, the old “without fear of hell, there would be nothing to stop people from being bloodthirsty monsters” argument. It may come as a surprise to most Christians, but there are reasons for being “good” other than fear of punishment - which isn’t really a reason, anyway, and only shows Christians in a very bad light. Reasons like human empathy, genuine feelings for others, and, most importantly, rational principles. Behaving yourself just because daddy will spank you otherwise does not make you a nice child.
- Atheists are a unified group, like a church. Are we? I must have missed the memo, then.
If anything, I’d say atheists are more diverse than Christians, because we’re less “sheep-like”, and don’t accept things on faith, or from authority. - Atheists actually know, deep inside, that there’s a God, as that’s perfectly obvious; they are simply too proud and arrogant to admit the existence of something greater than themselves. Not exactly. You see, the existence of a god is only “obvious” if you’ve been brainwashed (either by others, or by your own irrationality) into believing it. We are truly convinced that there’s no god, and are not in denial. Really. I’m serious.
- Atheists don’t really know anything about Christianity. Again, it depends. Some certainly know more than others. However, religion is so ubiquitous that, like it or not, we’ve all had varying degrees of contact with it, with its teachings, and with believers. Besides, a lot of atheists are naturally curious. I, myself, have read the Christian Bible - more than once, in fact. Now, dear believer, ask yourself how many atheist books, magazines or essays you have read. Oh, I forgot, they’re all the work of Satan.
- Atheists’ lives are cold and empty, as they can’t feel the joy and love that comes only from God. Really? I’d never call my life “cold” or “empty” - I have the joys of friendship, love, family, and doing the things I love to do. And, what’s more, I’m self-sufficient, unlike anyone who says “I don’t know how anyone could live without God in their lives” - as many Christians do.
- Atheists are depressive and nihilistic, since they believe there’s nothing after death, and therefore there’s no point to anything. On the contrary, we, unlike you, know how precious life is, because we’re aware that it’s our only one. And, this may come as a shock to you, but we can love our lives, we can feel the joy of being alive, because we don’t believe that “this is the devil’s world”, or that “this is just a test before the real thing”. Life is precious, and it’s our own - not any god’s.
- Atheists are cold and uncaring. No, we are not. Having delusions doesn’t make anyone more “caring”. And, again, we treat life as precious, and do what we can to improve it, both ours and that of our loved ones. On the other hand, many Christians believe life is suffering, and that there’s nothing we can do about it.
- Atheists are arrogant. What, because we dare to use our minds instead of asking “who are we to know”? No, we’re not.
- Atheists want to forbid religious worship. Wrong. We just don’t want to be harmed by it. Want to believe in God, Jesus, Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy? Be my guest. Want to teach your kids to do the same? I feel sorry for them, but it will still take many years until people realize how crippling one’s reason in childhood is like a bird crippling its offspring’s wings. (*) Want to give all your money to a guy with a Lexus and a bad haircut? Fine. But don’t try to “save” me, don’t harass me in the street or at my home, don’t get politicians to enact laws to give power to you, don’t try to teach your religion in science classes by dishonestly giving it a new name and disguising it as “science”, and don’t use my tax money to write your idiocies in public places. In short, do as you want, as long as you keep it to yourself - just like I don’t go to your place trying to un-convert you.
- Atheists are incapable of feeling awe at simple things, like a beautiful sunset, as they see everything in terms of cold science, instead of miracles. Ah, unweaving the rainbow - the idea that beauty and poetry only exist if we know little to nothing about how things work. But I ask you: does the fact that you know about astronomy, physics and light make the sunset any less beautiful? Was it beautiful only because it seemed “magical” - or “an act of god” - to you?
- Atheists live their lives in constant fear of death. Few people actually want to die - those that do are either depressed and suicidal, or are Christians who believe that the world is evil, “please, Lord Jesus, take me”, and all that. A reasonable fear of death is perfectly natural. Also, we may believe that this life “is it”, which makes us treat it as precious, but, at least, we don’t think that there’s a chance of going to a place where you burn and are tortured for eternity…
- Most criminals are atheists (or, alternatively, the percentage of atheists among criminals is higher than among the general populace). Oddly enough, the opposite is true.
- Atheists are stubborn and closed-minded. Not unless you define “closed-minded” like this. But, as Ebon said, Ask any believer what would convince him he was mistaken and persuade him to leave his religion and become an atheist, and if you get a response, it will almost invariably be, “Nothing - I have faith in my god.” Although such people may well exist, I personally have yet to meet a theist who would acknowledge even the possibility that his belief was in error. Many theists, by their own admission, structure their beliefs so that no evidence could possibly disprove them. Atheists, on the other hand, are easy to convince - all it requires is for God to show himself in some unfakeable way - say, for instance, by doing any of the many things he supposedly did in the Old Testament…
- Atheists make bad parents. Again, there are good and bad atheist parents, and good and bad Christian parents. Atheist parents, however, would never do what Abraham was about to do to his son Isaac (and Christians see Abraham’s behavior as laudable!), because, to most atheists, our lives are our own. In fact, even if there was a God, it would not follow that our lives are his.
Note: There’s already a list, The Top 10 Atheist Myths, by Dave Silverman, but mine isn’t inspired by that one. I agree with what Silverman writes, but I don’t think all of those are necessarily the top myths. Not to say my list is better, but these are what I think are the top myths… and a couple of them are actually in both lists. Besides, my list has more myths than his, which obviously makes it better. 
(*) There used to be something harsher there, where I seemed to (but didn’t) compare teaching religion to children to sexual abuse. I just meant to say that it was crippling, and should be seen as we see parents who refuse their kids medical treatment because they’d rather put their faith in god: bad parents who aren’t capable of being parents. As it was misunderstood, I edited it. Any (pre-edit) comments about it are still below, though.
EDIT: Don’t believe that many Christians actually think some these things about atheists? Please read my new post, Are the myths about atheists real or not?
EDIT 2: Because there are so many comments, and because most of them (including some of my replies) were getting too far from the original subject, I’ve closed the comments for this post, and created a new one: Christian myths about Atheism: discussion. If you want to comment, or reply to this post’s comments, please go there.
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Well, for a list of Myths about Atheists, they seem to be extremely focused on Christianity. I’m not sure if this list doesn’t make the 6th myth of the list more than a myth.
I know that’s just a myth because being an atheist myself, I know much more of religion besides the Christian ones.
Maybe the title of the article should be “16 Common Christian Myths about Atheists”.
It’s the religion I have the most contact with, and by far the most common one in Western countries… it’s natural that it’s their misconceptions that I chose to address. I really don’t know what Buddhists, Taoists or Native Americans believe about atheists - mostly because I personally don’t know any. Maybe in the future…
Oh, and welcome to this blog.
Hey! Where do I join the Athiest church?
This is not a stupid question…really. I wrote “Now, one of the problems we atheists face is that we don’t have anywhere we can meet to discuss our non-beliefs. We have no organization. It’s difficult to talk about a belief you don’t have, so we tend to be left out in the cold.”
So, what about it? Can we open an Athiest congregation where we can go to not worship?
Hey! Where do I join the Athiest church?
This is not a stupid question…really. I wrote “Now, one of the problems we atheists face is that we don’t have anywhere we can meet to discuss our non-beliefs. We have no organization. It’s difficult to talk about a belief you don’t have, so we tend to be left out in the cold.” (http://whiteboysinasia.com/?p=404)
So, what about it? Can we open an Athiest congregation where we can go to not worship?
Sorry about the double post. I hit Submit and then realized I forgot to put the link. I guess I didn’t hit the Stop button quick enough.
Ouch, my eyes hurt! Please consider changing the colours on this site ! I totally agree with you on this article, but i bet many will not come back to the site just because of the colours.
anon: funny, nobody said anything for months, and now there are several comments complaining. I must do something about it, then… though I’d like to avoid the fashionable “web 2.0″ obsession with white and light green. More about it later…
Excellent post, though I have to agree about the colour scheme. There’s an entertaning video of Richard Dawkins expounding about Russell’s Teapot here that you might like to take a look at.
Wow…16 strawmen all lined up and knocked over. You must be exhausted!
I’m not knocking on you Pedro, because it is true that Christians and specially Catholics are the ones who have more misconceptions about the Atheists. Most of the other religions are much more tolerant.
About the colors here, I don’t like that much either, but I like the black background and light grey fonts. The orange is the one that hurts the eyes when we try to read it. Consider changing just the orange to a lighter one.
>> “On the contrary, we, unlike you, know how precious life is,”
Man, you are still biased against those who don’t share your worldview. How pathetic.
funny, nobody said anything for months.
Well, It has been reeditted (reddit.com)!!!
They are atheits and atheits, living with a big group of them I can tell you the same flaws they see in religions socities they start doing the same, the mayority seems to abuse minorities, as a human natural behabiour. I’m not one of them(I believe in god), but not going to the church every sunday in a strong catholic family makes you something like that for your people.
I like the colors, much more than “white in everything, burn your eyes”.
Cheers
Want to teach your kids to do the same? I feel sorry for them, but it will still take many years until parents can legally be held accountable for that, as they are for sexually abusing their kids.
It already happened, in soviet union.
Actually, If you want to see it now, go North Korea, for a west minded point of view is an unique experience in live. As yoy see in http://www.korea-dpr.com/faq.htm
korea in composed mostly by non-religious or atheists.
Nice list. I have been an atheist all my life. I really cant stand it when people say the morality thing. Which they do fairly often.
It’s not that atheists have no morality, since many are clearly moral. Rather, it’s that atheists have a parasitic morality. They absorb the morals of the culture around them. Because an atheist’s morals are in synch with the society around them, everything functions fine. An atheist who grows up in, say, a Muslim culture, will have a very different set of morals, and will in fact, have a hard time understanding an atheist from the West.
Western Civilization has at its moral foundation “Judeo-Christian” (as a Jew I use this term guardedly) moral values. Those values hold human life in very high regard, and place a tremendous amount of attention on respecting each person and their property (don’t murder; don’t steal; don’t commit adultery; even don’t desire what isn’t yours - ie covet). Muslim cultures superficially seem similar, but they most definitely are not.
Ultimately, this “myth” (#3) is a straw man. Atheists, as I said above, can and do act morally. But there is no reason for an atheist to expect others to act similarly. Religions which claim a divine revelation, whether you agree with them or not, can. They claim that the morality they preach has a divine origin, and thus universal applicability.
10. Atheists are arrogant.
Well, I don’t know about atheists, but you definitively are… or at least you sound like one
Not quite, I had a rest since then.
Seriously, the idea of my post is “Christians believe this, this and this, wrongly, about atheists”. From my experience, a lot of them do, so the “myths” exist. Just because you don’t believe in them, yourself, doesn’t mean that a lot of Christians don’t. I really don’t see how this can be a “strawman argument” (and yes, I know what it is. ;))
“Atheists want to forbid religious worship. Wrong. We just don’t want to be harmed by it. Want to believe in God, Jesus, Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy? Be my guest. Want to teach your kids to do the same? I feel sorry for them, but it will still take many years until parents can legally be held accountable for that, as they are for sexually abusing their kids.”
Sexual abuse is illegal and immoral. It could be said it is forbidden. You seem to be making a moral equivalence between teaching one’s religious beliefs to one’s children and sexually abusing them. Based on your wording indicating that parental accountability for the act of teaching religious beliefs to children is a thing that will occur in time, I infer that you are for making religious teaching an illegal and immoral act. And later you state “don’t get politicians to enact laws to give power to you.” It sounds to me like you want the law to agree with your beliefs. And you want me to believe that you do not want to forbid religious worship. I expect better logic than this out of atheists.
Again, there are Christians who believe that life is nothing important, that it’s just a test to see whether you go to heaven or to hell, that the “real thing” is after you leave your body behind. Many of them, in fact, believe that - even the Bible tells you not to get too attached to this world.
Do you deny that? Even if you don’t share that view, you have to admit that many Christians believe it.
Atheists, on the other hand, know that this life is it.
Where’s my bias, then?
I’ve already answered this one in Reddit. I’m not likening it to sexual abuse or anything, just to, say, a bird crippling the wings of its offspring while they’re still in the nest. Birds have wings, humans have reason, so crippling reason is, to me, a crime - at least a moral one. But I admit that writing that may have been too much, as most people see nothing wrong with teaching our kids not to question, and not to trust their minds. Maybe I’ll edit it.
As to politicians enacting laws to give power to Christians, I think the meaning should be clear: no tax breaks, no financial aid. It’s discriminatory, and an abuse of tax money. Here, it doesn’t have anything to do with religion, but with the fact that governments shouldn’t even be allowed to do such things.
The question to ask is whether being an atheist means you “don’t believe in god” or “believe there is no god”…
No doubt a Christian would look at an atheist as an non-believer, where in actual fact they have a belief, it just differs from that of their own
whole-heartedly agree with the article. well-written and informative (at least for the ignorant masses). Spread the word of no-god, so that others may see the real light and strive to understand it scientifically. Science is the only way forward, ignore it at your (and probably our) peril. I dont hate anyone, especially not because of their religion.. I do, however, tend to think more of those who question their surroundings. I have sympathy for those who need the crutch that religion provides, but urge them to seek out the truth.. you need no one but yourself, anyone else (familly, friend, etc.) is just a (fantastically wonderful) bonus. You are an intelligent being, whether you like it or not.. so act like one.
First, I don’t think there are many atheists in Muslim cultures, as I believe it’s punishable by death, according to the Koran. If there are any, they’re probably hiding their lack of belief. I may be wrong here, though.
As to the “parasitic morality”, you are implying that morality comes from God or religion, which I - and any atheists - dont’ agree with. You don’t seem to realize that it’s possible to be moral according to our own rational principles, our feelings for other people, and so on.
As Ayn Rand (quick, run away!) said, “The moral is the chosen, not the forced; the understood, not the obeyed.” I think that it’s much better that I don’t kill someone for their money because I realize it’s wrong, than if I just didn’t do it because I was afraid of going to hell.
Funny, if you’re sure of something extremely unlikely according to observation (the existence of a God), you’re “devout”, but if you’re sure of something extremely likely according to observation (the non-existence of a God), you’re arrogant.
I have to disagree… I HATE RELIGIOUS NUTS!
Religion is the single greatest root of all evil.
The advancement of mankind requires us to leave fairy tales behind.
New color scheme. Like it?
You may have to force a refresh in your browser to see it.
MANY THRUTHS about Atheists:
1. They prefer debating the issues rather than accepting them.
3. They are smarter and tell better jokes!
4. Most atheists are knowledgeable about MANY religions AND cultures and try to be respectful towards each one. (Except me! Exception = Rule proven… the respectful part of course, not the knowledgeable aspect…)
5. Atheists LOVE comic books! (Especially the new Ultimate comics!)
6. Atheists have great tastes in movies… except for a few I know…
7. Atheists in general simply want a functional society that can work together on factually proven ideas to improve the world around us, and not to destroy your beliefs. Accepting that science is our COMMON point of reference for everyone allows us to interact on these levels… EXCEPT for the bloody creationists! With religion now undermining Science is exactly the same as judging our “religion”…
Silly of us atheists to believe that we could all come together and discuss scientifically proven facts together… I mean… really Facts! Jeez, who believes in proven ideas anymore… and why should we ever have consider that people might be reasonable to accept this.
“…moral according to our own rational principles, our feelings…”
Rational principles and feelings are, of course, two contradictory positions to take. Besides the fact that morals founded on feelings are completely dependent on the individual!
Why is something wrong? Because you feel it? What if I feel differently? What if I feel that my own survival trumps all other considerations? Even better, I am an ambitious person who wants to advance my position in society. Why should I control my actions? Why should I consider how my actions affect other people?
You also completely ignore my hypothetical about the possible atheist in a Muslim culture. It doesn’t matter whether they exist or not. However, the existence of secularist Muslim nations (Syria, pre-war Iraq, Egypt, Turkey, pre-revolutionary Iran, etc) certainly shows that it is possible to be a quiet non-believer in Muslim lands.
The instant you believe your personal convictions are applicable to others besides yourself, and that you expect others to abide by them as well, you are saying one of two things:
1. There is a God who transcends humanity and who’s will applies equally to all.
2. My beliefs are superior to all others and thus humanity must abide by them.
Just because you and the atheist down the street happen to abide by the same set of morals doesn’t mean you came to them by the same process, or that you won’t diverge in your morals in the future. It’s just a happy coincidence.
If you accept that you are moral, you must be prepared to define moral. If you define it, you must expect others to accept that definition as well. If you expect that, you aren’t just one moral agent among many, you are the sin qua non of moral agents, the arbiter of morality, in effect a replacement for God.
Saying that it is wrong to murder because it leads to a breakdown in society also doesn’t lead to a universal moral conclusion. What if a murder you want to commit is guaranteed not to lead to any such breakdown (eg a homeless person with no known friends or family)? What if a theft goes undetected? What makes either of those actions wrong?
> Atheists are arrogant
I hope you put that one in there as satire because while your post is well reasoned, the tone of it is seriously arrogant. Perhaps it’s time for some non religious soul searching.
MANY THRUTHS about Atheists:
8. We are not a Unified group… otherwise we would be demonstrating at each political event and trying to keep science in our schools and not religious doGma.
9. We have nicer hair cuts.
10. We do not watch Walker Texas Ranger… (Confession time… I have seen one or two episodes… aarrgghh!)
11. We want FIREFLY back! Please Josh!
12. Most of us are lazy to vote! (Sad but true)
13. We despise being sent Powerpoint files with cute pictures and prayers!
14. We accept responsibility for our actions… (Well most of them at least… okay some of them… maybe)
15. Believe Oprah and Ricky Lake to be Mistresses of evil, along with anyone at CNN, FOX News and BBC, all belong to the same insane voodoo cult.
16.
17. If you think I missed 16… well… 16 is a message from goD… can’t you read it? You are an Atheist!
18. Read the REDDIT post about how many people goD has killed in comparison to Satan… If it’s true then call me a Satanistic Atheist!
19. Atheists do not get Christmas presents, all we get every year is a lump of coal.
20. We do not burn the coal, because we believe that the Green House effect is a real possibility if not a fact. Very kind of us wouldn’t you say?
21. Atheists LOVE dictionaries!
22. We Also LOVE a Thesaurus! (Too lazy too look up the plural of Thesaurus… see point 12)
23. We hate chocolates…. cos we take everything with a grain of salt.
24. Have the same chances as any religious person to win the lottery! (Still trying… aarrgghhh)
25. Verify what we hear and see on the news and newspapers… realising most of it is absolute BS!
26. Like fielding conspiracy theories ideas and conversations without ever having to believe in them.
27. Love the idea of aliens existing… Just so we can get of this nutty planet and away from you!
28. Make great cooks
29. Atheists are better in bed… (Or so I’ve heard… sigh)
30. Did I meantion we want FIREFLY back by any chance?
I really don’t think so, unless it’s the “arrogance” of being sure that millions of theists are wrong.
Is that “arrogant”, as in “who am I to think I know better than millions”? You may put it that way, though I believe that the truth or falsehood of anything does not depend of the number of people who believe (or not) in it. Usual example: at one time, everyone was sure that the Earth was flat, yet it wasn’t, even then.
Arrogant… you had a bad day, didn’t you.
“You don’t seem to realize that it’s possible to be moral according to our own rational principles, our feelings for other people, and so on.”
What are these rational principles? I’d also like to know what “feelings” are. What makes me love?
Why is it wrong to harm someone? What I mean, is how do you come to the conclusion that someone else is “wrong”? That sounds like a moral judgment to me. I accept that atheists can have morals, but what are they founded upon? If I was sitting on a bus and had to get up for a second, turn around and notice someone has taken my seat, how can I justify saying to them “that’s my seat! you were wrong to take it”. Where does this sense of right or wrong come from?
r2 (and, in a way, it also answers Scott): that’s a more complex question, which I’d better leave for another post.
But I’d say that the “moral”, the “good”, is what promotes life - and I mean life as a human being, not just basic survival. Therefore, the “immoral”, the “evil”, is what promotes death - not necessarily physical death, but “life in death”, an existance of suffering and despair.
This is just my opinion, though.
And my own principles are based on that. Not on “divine commandments”, or on a fear of punishment.
Very nice list… and considerably less abrasive than myself. I’m not surprised by the accusations of arrogance. I get such comments fairly often. I even wrote a response– Damned Uppity Atheists.
I dont consider myself an athiest. But i dont belive in religion. I think religion is the worst thing to ever happen to humanity. Its the root of most of humanities wars. In my opinion, religion should be outlawed. Now, i do belive in a greater being than myself, its just something i belive in. But, religion itself is just garbage. What would i classify under?
I like the articulation of your points and recognize that many of them are valid. However, I’d like to address them individually. Responding here is a poor place to do so. I’ll write my “rebuttal” and let you know where to find it. Thanks for your article. It has helped me to see another side of atheism (not agnosticism) and inspired me to try to find a way(s) for you to accept Christianity as being just as valid if not actually the right way.
John
well…i guess it leads to the breakdown in society when a dismoral act is done WIDESPREAD..for example, everyone starts stealing..such that even if it is undetected..the notion of property breaks down and we get a really confusing society
so thats why is wrong to do bad stuff and such..
Looks to me it’s a defensive maneuver; tell everyone what “Atheists” do and do not do. It’s a good generalization, isn’t it? Understandable, however, as atheists tend to receive a fair amount of criticism.
I understand the atheists. They just CAN’T to believe. Sometimes it’s very difficult to believe in God, but for them it’s almost impossible. They don’t know what to do to start to believe, even if they wish to.
“But I’d say that the “moral”, the “good”, is what promotes life - and I mean life as a human being, not just basic survival.”
“This is just my opinion, though.”
Another way of saying that is your philosophy of “good and bad” is your “belief”. What’s the difference between Christian religion and atheist religion? Nothing…save one ascribes belief from God while another ascribes belief from science, nature or something else.
Pedro, you believe that “good” promotes life. But, as you said, that’s your opinion, or belief. Maybe for you, science is your god. You see how life might work best, based upon scientific observation. My point is that non-belief is a belief and that atheism is only different than other religions in that atheism is not organized. However, there are a set of values and doctrines that are adhered to in atheism. Science dictates doctrine. As ej says, “Science is the only way forward, ignore it at your (and probably our) peril.”. That sounds a lot like a doctrine of fear just as much as Pedro would say that other religions promote fear in order to produce belief.
Here’s a few common misconceptions about christians too:
1. Have to be right-wing. Not so, just have to personally believe that Jesus is there and that He’s available to discussion.
2. Have to be anti-abortionist. Not so. Have to love everybody and be willing to sacrifice his own interests when others interests demand it. Have to do what Jesus would do. When in doubt. don’t!
3. Has to belong to a church. Not so. Have to have good relationship with Jesus and should belong to a church, where directed by Him.
4. Has to know what to believe about evolution. Not so. Has to be humble enough to say that I don’t have the capacity/information to evaluate this subject scientifically. Jesus knows.
5. Has to correct others misconceptions. Not so. Has to answer humbly, if others want to know what I believe.
Derek: trust me, we don’t want to believe. Why would we ever want that?
We are no more lonely - or alone - than you are.
r2: there’s no such thing as “atheist religion”. Atheist is a lack of belief. You probably don’t believe in Odin, so you’re an “Odin-atheist”. Now, do you think your non-belief in Odin is a “religion”?
Science is not my “god”, because I don’t need one. You assume that everyone needs a god, or something to believe in faithfully. But some of us like to simply enjoy their lives, and base their beliefs on observation (and no, that’s not “having observation as a god”. :))
Atheism doesn’t have a set of values and doctrines, because there’s isn’t such a thing as “atheism” (or, else, again, you’d belong to the “religion” of Odin-atheists, and to the religion of Cthulhu-atheists, and to many thousands other such “religions”). It’s not a group. You don’t “belong” to atheism. Atheists disagree on a lot of things. We don’t have a set of rules to follow, or anything like that, except our own, individually - I’ve already told you mine.
Is it so hard to imagine life without gods? Must you believe that we all have them, even if they are different?
As I once read, atheism is a religion as much as not collecting stamps is a hobby.
“Atheists are arrogant.”
Point 10 - The reason I see atheists as arrogant (though I would prefer to say presumptive), is based partly upon what Pedro says here: “I feel sorry for them, but it will still take many years until people realize how crippling one’s reason in childhood is like a bird crippling its offspring’s wings.”
Pedro, and many atheists, believe that science is conclusive. That reason and logic is infallible. YET, science, reason and logic has yet to disprove the existence of God. They also can’t logically explain how humans have within them a concept of God. If God did not exist, then why do we have a sense that there is a God? How can someone create or imagine that which previously had no precident? How do we know what “ideal” is? What is perfect? Science has never observed perfect society or harmony, so how is it that we should think to imagine such a thing? Where does our creativity come from? If you say it evolved, to what purpose did it evolve? This is loose logic and loose ideas, ones that “science” cannot prove but can explain, but I only ask to show that people of faith, which I lay claim, can reason. Unlike Pedro’s assumption that religious people cannot, which is arrogant.
“Atheist is a lack of belief.”
But you believe that “good” living is to promote life. This is what I, as a reasoning person, have trouble with. You have a logical contradiction. You’ve observed life and have created a philosophy which fits what you observed. Your philosophy is a belief system, whether you admit it or not. If atheism is truly about not having any beliefs, then there is no basis for you to form “opinions” about life. Observation can only hold true until the next sequence in events.
Pedro, I really trust you when you say that you “don’t want to believe”. The fact is that you don’t. And I understand. But I just think that it’s a pitty that you don’t want that hard.
Sorry, I didn’t say that, and I don’t believe that. What I believe is that logic, reason and science are - by far - the best we’ve got.
Nor have they disproven the existence of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Your point…?
Many of us don’t. Many people also believe they hear voices, or have been abducted by aliens. And Christianity is relatively modern; there were older religions. Who’s to say Zeus or the Mother Goddess aren’t more real than the Judeo-Christian god? After all, people believed in them first. It must have been some “god sense” at work, right?
I could say, then, that you don’t want to believe in Thor or Zeus. Do you? Have you opened your heart to them? No, because you have already found your “truth”, and you see no reason to believe that they exist. You’re certain that the thousands who believed in Thor, with all their hearts, centuries ago were wrong.
Well then, with me it’s the same - only I see as much reason to believe in Jehovah as to believe in Thor.
It’s not like I have to “guard myself” against believing, or against feeling “the touch of God”, or anything like that. I said that I didn’t want to believe - meaning, “I have no interest in believing”, not “I am making an effort not to ever believe” - in retort to your “They don’t know what to do to start to believe, even if they wish to.”.
r2:
I didn’t say I don’t have any beliefs. I simply don’t have any supernatural ones. Atheism is the lack of belief in a god or gods, or anything supernatural like angels or fairies. It’s not about not having any beliefs (about reality, about existence, about the natural world, about morality) at all.
I too felt that some of your points had a sort of arrogance to them…So I felt that I would try, as best as I could, remove as much of what I felt would deem offensive to any party. I did sort of remove alot of personal things that you added in there, and kept everything that you tried to say, I think.
1. Atheists hate Christians and Christianity. Some do. Some don’t. I don’t. Personally, what I do hate are atrocities that people have committed in the name of religion, the dishonesty of people in most religions, and the way that these religious people encourage others not to think or question, and not to trust or use their own minds. But I don’t dislike a person just because of their religion.
2. Most atheists started out as Christians, and stopped believing because of some bad experience with other Christians. Or maybe we simply started to question, to wonder what happened when we applied the standards of logic, reason and burden of proof to religion, as we already did to everything in our lives. Or, perhaps, we were never believers at all.
3. Atheists have no sense of morality, since morality comes from God. There are reasons for being “good” other than fear of punishment. Reasons like human empathy, genuine feelings for others, and, most importantly, rational principles.
4. Atheists are a unified group, like a church. I’d say atheists are more diverse than Christians, and don’t accept things on faith, or from authority.
5. Atheists actually know, deep inside, that there’s a God, as that’s perfectly obvious; they are simply too proud and arrogant to admit the existence of something greater than themselves. Not exactly. We are truly convinced that there’s no god, and are not in denial.
6. Atheists don’t really know anything about Christianity. Again, it depends. Some certainly know more than others. However, religion is so ubiquitous that, like it or not, we’ve all had varying degrees of contact with it, with its teachings, and with believers. Besides, a lot of atheists are naturally curious. I, myself, have read the Christian Bible - more than once, in fact. Now, dear believer, ask yourself how many atheist books, magazines or essays you have read.
7. Atheists’ lives are cold and empty, as they can’t feel the joy and love that comes only from God. I’d never call my life “cold” or “empty” - I have the joys of friendship, love, family, and doing the things I love to do. And, what’s more, I’m self-sufficient, unlike anyone who says “I don’t know how anyone could live without God in their lives” - as many Christians do.
8. Atheists are depressive and nihilistic, since they believe there’s nothing after death, and therefore there’s no point to anything. On the contrary, we know how precious life is, because we’re aware that it’s our only one. We can love our lives, we can feel the joy of being alive, because we don’t believe that life is precious, and it’s our own - not any god’s.
9. Atheists are cold and uncaring. No, we are not. Having delusions doesn’t make anyone more “caring”. And, again, we treat life as precious, and do what we can to improve it, both ours and that of our loved ones. On the other hand, many Christians believe life is suffering, and that there’s nothing we can do about it.
10. Atheists are arrogant. What, because we dare ask “who are we to know”? No, we’re not.
11. Atheists want to forbid religious worship. Wrong. We just don’t want to be harmed by it. Want to believe in God, Jesus? Be my guest. Want to teach your kids to do the same? Don’t try to teach your religion in science classes”, and don’t use my tax money to write your beliefs in public places. In short, do as you want, as long as you keep it to yourself.
12. Atheists are incapable of feeling awe at simple things, like a beautiful sunset, as they see everything in terms of cold science, instead of miracles. Ah, unweaving the rainbow - the idea that beauty and poetry only exist if we know little to nothing about how things work. But I ask you: does the fact that you know about astronomy, physics and light make the sunset any less beautiful? Was it beautiful only because it seemed “magical” - or “an act of god” - to you?
13. Atheists live their lives in constant fear of death. Few people actually want to die. A reasonable fear of death is perfectly natural. Also, we may believe that this life “is it”, which makes us treat it as precious.
14. Most criminals are atheists (or, alternatively, the percentage of atheists among criminals is higher than among the general populace). Oddly enough, the opposite is true.
15. Atheists are stubborn and closed-minded. Not unless you define “closed-minded” like this. But, as Ebon said, Ask any believer what would convince him he was mistaken and persuade him to leave his religion and become an atheist, and if you get a response, it will almost invariably be, “Nothing - I have faith in my god.” Although such people may well exist, I personally have yet to meet a theist who would acknowledge even the possibility that his belief was in error. Many theists, by their own admission, structure their beliefs so that no evidence could possibly disprove them. Atheists, on the other hand, are easy to convince - all it requires is for God to show himself in some unfakeable way - say, for instance, by doing any of the many things he did in the Old Testament.
16. Atheists make bad parents. Again, there are good and bad atheist parents, and good and bad Christian parents. Atheist parents, however, would never do what Abraham was about to do to his son Isaac, because, to most atheists, our lives are our own. In fact, even if there was a God, it would not follow that our lives are his.
I think you’d have a better chance at trying to prove your points at people without resorting to ridicule of their beliefs. Unless you were writing down the common myths of atheists strictly for atheists.
Philosophical question. Do the majority of atheist ‘know’ there isnt a God or do they rather ‘know’ there isn’t any proof of such? Some recent theist scientist on NPR’s Science Friday suggested atheists are arrogant because they presume to ‘know’ there isn’t a God. I disagree, I believe atheists don’t take non-existence as de facto but rather, know there is no proof of a God. It’s a nuanced difference I know but an important one.
Is it irony that an athiest’s blog is called “Way of the Mind”? How the mind works is one of the biggest questions that scientists have been unable to answer thus far.
As a Christian, I have a lot of problems with the way many Christians act, and I am never surprised to hear athiests, agnostics, or other religions complain. There are too many “Christians” that profess to believe in the tenants of Christianity, only to lead self-absorbed lives devoid of any actions to back up their claims.
Even worse, there are too many “Christians” who haven’t even read their Bibles, and there are too many pastors who don’t teach the Bible in context. Without the proper context, it’s far to easy to misinterpret the teachings of God.
I used to live my life on my terms and hated church, but when I was actually taught from the Bible properly, I was left with no questions about the existence of God.
I can remember when I was 12. Missionaries always come up to you and MAKE you recite a paragraph or two with them. It’s always “I open my heart to Jesus and worship him whole-heartily” and then “Please Jesus come clean my heart….blah…blah…blah”. I actually recite them a couple of time when I was younger but as I got older, I began to ignore them, which went unsuccessfully, and questions their method of converting people to their religion.
Once I even ask them to COME TO MY RELIGION and you know what their response is “I’m sorry but I cannot do that as my faith is with God and the son of God.” WHAT ABOUT ME THEN? I F*CKING HAVE MY OWN BELIEVES SO DON’T SHOVE THAT SH!T DOWN MY THROAT THEN. That’s my two cent.
Robert, you have a point there. And thanks for the “nice” version.
I don’t think I’ll change much more of what I’ve written, except to correct any typos or mistakes I find. In a way, although I did’t write this “in anger”, I do feel a little resentment for the fact that these myths about atheists actually exist - it just shows that Christians blindly believe what they are told about atheists by their ministers or priests, without ever wondering if it might be a good idea to find out for themselves - and for the things I read in many believers’ blogs, and in the general news. The fact that the US in the world has a Christian president, a Christian congress, a Christian senate, a huge majority of Christians, and still Christians say that they are “persecuted”, for instance, is beyond belief.
And, yes, I do believe religion - any religion - is harmful to mankind, both for the atrocities and for the intellectual crippling it causes, and the fact that fundamentalism actually appears to be rising is both irritating… and scary.
Greg:
So, what about the part that tells you to kill homosexuals? Or to stone to death anyone who works on a Saturday? Are you ignoring those? If so, aren’t you arrogantly implying that you know better than God?
hehe, pedro, you’re article + responses to feedback are bad ass–err, sensational! Vote 4 Pedro
I’m a believer and find this list of athiest myths stupid (sorry).
Chistians may have faith but even we have athiests in our families and know they are just as valid, lovable and “human” as everyone else. Athiest are not evil, though they may be sinful like the rest of us. But then again, what is sin if you don’t believe, there is no accounting of it if you don’t believe in an after-life.
Everybody knows an athiest and everyone knows that they take in the broad spectrum in society. Some are intelligent, persuasive, hungry for knowledge and some are not. Why these 16 myths are even published is questionable, unless it is meant to vilify believers. This list is unnecessary. In fact it reads more like an insult to those of faith
Re: the first myth: many atrocities have been committed in the name of Christianity but the greatest tragedy of the 20th Century, the holocaust, was a product of a rationalist mind-set gone insane (i.e. purifying the race). You don’t have to believe in God to make the world miserable. And, afterall, science in all it’s greatness gave us the nuclear bomb.
I have been decidedly athiest since I attended a church service with a friend at the age of 12. How a 12 year old can realize the absurdity of God and not the rest of the world is beyond me, but people spend too much time bitching about it on internet blogs and never do anything about it. STOP being too lazy to vote and next time, keep some religious douche like Bush out of power. The fact that I even know Jerry Falwell’s name pisses me off - how are these people getting famous??
Also…i bet that most people in America that are supposedly religious have their own doubts…but 1.) its convenient to just blend in, and 2.) who wants to admit to their friends and family that they have been living a lifetime of lies?
STOP forcing your beliefs on your children and give them a chance to discover their own reality.