A couple of weeks ago, in a discussion forum (I don’t remember which, sorry), someone wrote something like this:
“I’m an agnostic; not arrogant enough to be an atheist”
Whatever your beliefs, or lack of them, it’s quite likely that you’ve heard or read similar phrases. But is atheism really “arrogant”?
I don’t think so, for several reasons. But let’s consider, first, why people say being an atheist is arrogant.
First, many theists believe that the existence of God, of a creator of the universe, is so obvious, so “just a plain fact”, that, to them, an atheist is someone who still, deep inside, realizes that there is a God, but arrogantly refuses to acknowledge, at least to the outside, a being superior to himself. It’s almost as if he was in denial.
If it was so, then surely, there would be some kind of arrogance (or, more precisely, pride) in there. But that theory is wrong. Partly because the existence of God is only “obvious” if you’ve been indoctrinated to it since birth, which the theist may not realize doesn’t happen to everyone. And partly because, shocking as it may be to a theist, true atheists really (no, really!) don’t believe in any sort of god or supernatural being. Yes, they’re sincere. No, they’re not in denial. Really. Get over it. 
Second: a lot of people (both theists and agnostics) believe atheism is arrogant because there’s no way you can surely know. Even if there’s absolutely no proof to the existence of God, even if there’s nothing to even suggest that God exists, even if everything you see around you can have a natural explanation (and it can), that doesn’t prove God doesn’t exist, right? He could have created the universe and “gone into hiding” afterwards, and be completely undetectable to any scientific means. If there is no way to really know for sure, isn’t it arrogant to be sure about it?
There are several problems with that, though. One of them is that it could be applied in reverse: isn’t it arrogant to be certain that there is a God, when you can’t know for sure? Furthermore, if everything in the world suggests that there isn’t one, isn’t believing, for sure, without a shred of doubt, in what is least likely, even more arrogant (not to mention weird)?
In other words, if it’s arrogant to be sure of something that is likely, isn’t it more arrogant to be sure of something that is unlikely?
Another problem with that way of thinking is that it can be applied to anything in life: “it’s arrogant to be sure about something”. In other words, it’s arrogant to observe and then choose the most likely explanation or conclusion. It’s arrogant to deduce from experience. It’s arrogant to apply logic. It’s arrogant to expect the laws of nature to remain active in the next minute. Isn’t that what those people are saying?
What’s wrong about that mentality is that it rejects reality, or it thinks of it as “fluid” and unknowable. If there’s a wall in front of me, and then I close my eyes, I can be reasonably sure that the wall is still there, that reality hasn’t “shifted” in some unpredictable way. Am I arrogant for stating that the wall is still in front of me, even without opening my eyes? I don’t think so. There’s every reason to believe it’s still there. The “being sure is arrogant” people would probably tell me that the wall being there is as likely as it not being there anymore, and that I can’t know for sure until I open my eyes again.
Or, to give you another example: one of my cats loves to rip toilet paper to shreds, so I have to keep my bathroom door closed. If one day I forget to close it, and when I return home the floor is full of toilet paper shreds, I can be sure it was my cat. I’m not “arrogant” or “closed-minded” because I don’t give equal time to ideas like “it was an act of God” or “the toilet paper did it on its own”. There’s such a thing as reason, and using it is not arrogant. Not using it, however, is quite stupid.
Finally, some people believe that being an agnostic is “safer”, because, in the event that God does exist, it’s best not to offend him. Just in case. But, as Douglas Adams said,
If it turns out that I’ve been wrong all along, and there is in fact a god, and if it further turned out that this kind of legalistic, cross-your-fingers-behind-your-back, Clintonian hair-splitting impressed him, then I think I would chose not to worship him anyway.
I am quite convinced that there is no such thing as a “God”, from observing the world, and thinking about the most logical, reasonable explanation. If that makes me “arrogant” (which I don’t believe it does), so be it. It’s better than refusing to think, to whine that “who are we to know?”.
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You can’t expect a reasoned idea of atheism from people who base their life on unreasonable ideas.
Great post. I tend to be quite “arrogant” in knowing that the earth is round instead of flat, as well.
One can’t really compare physical facts with “theological” ones. I’m an agnostic by choice: I choose not to place my bets on either side of the track, I just don’t care.
My definition of arrogance bases itself on the following situations:
- Wanton denial of hard facts;
- Impossible-to-confirm assumptions/predictions;
(I’ve written, on multiple occasions, what I think of the “Does God exist?” discussion. I can sum it up in a few words: if (one or more) God(s) does (do) exist, why should (s)he/they care?)
As for arrogance, I don’t have much to say. To use a wrestling example, I feel it would be downright arrogant to state that “New Year’s Revolution is WWE’s 2006’s best Pay-Per-View event. The year started a week or so ago, how can one be so sure of this?”
Also, I find one should use different approaches when dealing with either physical or social phenomena. While one can state a rock will fall if there’s nothing holding it up (physics, it seems, has been working for a while), I can’t agree with saying that, for example, everyone IS going to be into yo-yo’s this year. Not even Chelsea is unbeatable, so one has to keep an eye out for unforeseen events.
It’s like what happened with our former former prime-minister here in Portugal. He stepped down from office midterm, to take the position of ” President of the European Comission”. I, at least, couldn’t guess that was going to happen. That’s why I think saying “this will happen, no chance it won’t” is arrogant. I find it “It’s very likely this is going to happen” is a much more sensible approach.
Evidence is good, building a theory on that evidence is even better, saying it can’t be wrong is dangerous. It’s like science experiments: just because your calculations say about a 100kg of sugar will melt, until you actually conduct said experiment, there’s no earthly way you can be sure. Temperature alone can ruin it
Maybe I’m being arrogant by saying this, but it’s my opinion and I’ll stick with it until I am proved wrong
I believe that atheists ACT arrogantly, not that atheism is aggogant in itself. I’m a Christian, and I’ve had to defend my faith against several arrogant atheists that believe my belief in God is small minded, and that I’m a simpleton for believing so. Well my IQ of 125 says otherwise. If God does exist (which he does), I’ll end up in Heaven. If he doesn’t, I would have lived a principled life because of Christianity. So either way, it’s win win for me.
Leon: just one thing about “a principled life”. It’s always good to have principles, but, then again, there are so many options. I have my own: among others, always thinking for myself (I’m not saying that you don’t), living in accordance with reality, questioning everything, not giving in to any kind of wishful thinking, always striving to learn more. Oh, and I believe I’m a reasonably “good person”, and that you can be that without any kind of religion. Because…
- Albert Einstein
(I took this one from the Martian’s blog)
I absolutely agree with your conclusion that there is no God active in our universe; I am, however, an advocate of the theory that there was once an “Intelligent Designer” of some sort at work but that’s a subject for another response.
Arrogance! I believe that the only people who are NOT being arrogant on the subject of God are the agnostics — they have no facts in either direction (because there are none) and freely admit it. The believers, who use faith in place of fact and the nonbelievers who use logic in the same way (myself included) are indeed the arrogant ones.
Your arguments about the wall and your cat are not even close to subject under discussion. A wall is irrefutable as is your cat’s toilet paper shredding habit (under the given circumstances) — not so for the existance or non-existance of God.
My examples were just about the fact that many people believe that “being sure is arrogant”, or that “being sure when you didn’t see it happening is arrogant”.
That way of (not?) thinking is little more than an appeal to ignorance and mediocrity: “who are we to know?”
I’m agnostic.
Not because I don’t believe in a God. But because I honestly don’t know.
I understand all the theories and all the principles regarding religion - and they just don’t ring true.
And yet… Somehow - out of nothingness, I am here, thinking - out of nothingness the universe into infinity was created.
So that leaves a question in my mind as to whether that “something” that started it all was a concious being. If that something was a concious being then, that something is what I would consider a god.
Now - whether worship is needed - I dunno. I don’t worship presidents or Einstein or Edgar Allen Poe, nor Davinci, nor anyone.
But a part of me wishes that I could blame existence on something - rather than nothing.
The “I don’t know” part keeps me from joining a religion - because I refuse to ACT as if it is real, if I don’t know the facts. And it also keeps me from vehemently being in denial that there is a possibility that a “higher power” exists.
In the end, I suppose it doesn’t matter. If there is nothing after life… then big deal. If there is something after life - then if that something is powerful enough to be a god - then they know exactly where my mind is and wouldn’t dare punish me - because I can’t imagine punishing someone who wants the truth - but hasn’t seen it.
So - in retrospect… I’m an open-minded agnostic - who is interested - but just can’t seem to find the truth anywhere.
See… Cause I surely doubt any religion should be based on money, power, greed, war, anger.
Rather it should be based on tolerance, love, hope, laughter.
And I haven’t found anything - not even humanity - that exhibits that.
LOL!
EDIT by admin: sorry, but even inside a nice comment, no spam allowed.
Atheism is not arrogancy. It’s simply a choice in life. Perhaps people think it is arrogancy because it’s tendency to be look like a kind of “ego-centrism”
“Choice in life”? Perhaps… it’s the choice of letting reason rule you. Not hopes, not wishes, not fears, and not “what most people believe”.
Something I read somewhere: it’s strange that “atheist” is a word. After all, we don’t have words for “someone who doesn’t believe in the Tooth Fairy”.
Let me break this down:
“thinking for myself”. Have you ever read ANY psychology? You rarely do this if you are a normal human being.
“living in accordance with reality”. Reality is, my dear, in the eye of the beholder. Metaphysics anyone?
“questioning everything”. Who determines the level of proof? As a statistician I have massive questions over most popular research. The more I dig, the more jumbled it gets. Question the research methods and get told you are wrong, but for no statistical reason.
“not giving in to any kind of wishful thinking”. Occams razor anyone? Seems to work for a few others.
“always striving to learn more”. Good stuff. Do some reading.
Once you get to a certain level in any field, you realise there are more questions than answers. Its simply another rabbit hole after another dorothy. Arrogance can be mistaken for ignorance when people believe they have the answers. As a researcher in biostatistics, I know we dont. And I know a lot of “answers” in popular science have been based off rubbish methodology, questionable practices and terrible statistical principles. I believe people like you who think they know the answers to life, its mysteries and beauty should take the jump to oblivion.
There are so many things I could say, but here goes: Could a species of higher beings not be master quantum mechanists, in all places at once yet none (wormhole physics), observing and influencing in chaotic ways, and knowing the future as time may be simply another dimension to them? Look at the science. Something is the multidimensional random number generator underlying our universe. I dont pretend to know what that is, and neither should you. Sub-atomic fluctuation or not, its there and its real.
Ben.
I am honoured that you chose to quote Douglas Adams. Here is another:
“…Nearly 2000 years after some guy got nailed to a tree for saying how great it would be to be nice to people for a change…”
Believing that you were created in the image of a diety in a universe created solely for your enjoyment, now that’s arrogant.
Christianity is so dominant that “Christianity is clearly stupid” often seems to automatically translate into “I am atheist” (ie. nothing religious or spiritual can possibly be true). In actuality, these are only two options of an infinite number of possibilities.
As an agnostic (who’s ruled out Christianity as clearly stupid), I certainly don’t consider it arrogance to act on something that seems likely to be true; that’s just common sense. But Atheism closes the door on infinite possibilities and says “No. This is the correct answer. Period.”. That IS arrogance. And it doesn’t even have a divinely inspired book to back it up.
For most of known history humanity has been pretty darn sure they knew how the universe worked; the rest was just minor detail to be worked out. And for most of known history, the next generation proved them wrong. Our knowledge of the natural laws works, and it works well ; just like Newton’s laws of motion did. Until they were proven to be a special case. Fortunately Einstein updated them. Until quantum theory came along…
If you want to act on what seems likely to be true, try this: The likeliest thing to be true is that our knowledge will prove to be incomplete and that “there are more things under heaven and earth than are dreamed of in our philosophy”. So it pays to keep our minds open (not WIDE open, but at least a crack).
It saddens me that, if the truth IS anything other than Christianity or Atheism, we’ll probably never find it because we’re all stubbornly facing the opposite direction.
The problem for me of most religion is not that God exist, but that religion uses some kind of middle man in order to precieve God. Christianity has Jesus, Islam has Ali, Mormons has Joseph Smith, etc. It would be nice to find the truth directly from the source, but that doesn’t happen. Throughout history we get a bunch of men claiming to have spoken to God or that God appeared to them. I find it weird that the founders of most religious organization find it nessessary to be worshiped themself in order for their followers to precieve God. This notion is most prominent in Christianity, since Jesus outright claims he’s the son of God, not that he was the first to have made that claim. I think in every case, there lies a more selfish motive other than just wanting people to love one another, live peacefully, and do good. So many millions have died in the name of religion or a religious movement. I can’t understand how someone to be well minded and kindhearted can consciously get involve into organizations that have recorded history of their abuse of power and acts evil. When subscribing to a religion means having to blindly believe all the BS that goes along with that religion, I chose not to belong to any organization.
you got it all wrong man…
atheism is as arrogent as theism…. this whole post suggests you have no idea what agnosticisem is all about… both theists and atheist hold a certin BELIFE concerning god… that BELIFE is arrogent since either of them have no facts, notions or proofs to uphold thier belife except thier indoctorination… an agnoctican doesn’t belive in things he does not have proof for, thus the exsistance on inexsistance of some supernatural beeing… when you say your an atheist you are no differant then any other god-loving moron…
sorry for the bad english… it aint my natural language…
I would say the confusion person writing this article is confused. This compares a comment by a believer that an atheist is arrogant, then counters it by making the believer appeart more arrogant. I think the issue that is being neglected is that to the agnostic [which I am] BOTH camps are arrogant. The point is that the certainty itself is unattainable imo. Atheism is a religion in my book. It’s belief system is defined as fact. As such the entire thing is unreliable. The most a person can say objectively is that they cannot be sure however this is what they believe. To declare otherwise is to know that which cannot be empirically proven [which is what we rely upon]. So do I think atheists are arrogant? Damn right :p But no more so than every believer.
I think that an important distinction has not been made here, and I apologize if this digression into semantics only more muddles the situation, but I feel it may shed some light. There is a spectrum of belief in a deity, which could be roughly defined as going from strong athiest (”I believe there is no god”) to weak atheist (”I do not profess belief in a god”) to theist (”I believe in god(s)”). Agnosticism does not fall on this spectrum, it is just the position the existence of a god can not be known. An agnostic can be either theist or atheist, meaning they have an inclination either, but just do not think it can be known.
I personally am a strong atheist- I believe that there is no god- but I do not believe this is an arrogant position. I only make my claim in response to theists who claim there is a god but do not provide sufficient evidence. If I were to be provided with one piece on unfakeable evidence in a god, I would change my position. My claim is “I believe there is no god”, not “there is no god and nothing can change my mind.” I cannot see how making an assertion can be construed as arrogance, for everyone makes assertions. The mark of arrogance is holding these assertions to be true regardless of evidence and without reconsidering the position.
You know, i’m going to answer to the “god created the universe one”. Get that Nobel Price ready folks.
Lets say, that our universe as we know it, is in reality just a small part of a even larger universe. And lets get more silly, and state that maybe our part of the universe was nothing but one empty space with gas in the past. No planets, no nothing. And here comes the even more silly part, lets say a few little gray aliens come flying by in there UFO, and one takes a dump. His hot radioactive wast creates a chain reaction, sucking in the gasses, until it reaches critical mass and creating the ‘universe part’ as we know it.
Sound silly doesnt it? Now, how are all those Christians, Muslims, Yews etc going to feel, that they worshipped a dump as the “creator”.
All hail the dump?
Its funny to see people claim that xxx exist, because … heuuu … because … wait … almost there … nowp, don’t got it. O wait, its because other people claim he/she ( lets not be sexist and always refer to it as a he
) exists. And those other people know of it because people teachet them, and them before them, and before them. And before you know it, you are a few tens of thousand years in the past, when people still feared lightening as “god”, and everything else unknown. Religion is nothing more then a very very long story, that got adapted to the times, but it reverts back to our primal fear of the unknown. And because we don’t know what happens after we die, people like to believe the story’s of hell & heaven to justify themselves. And those that disagree with them are arrogant, unbelievers, heidens, and even today, that can get you killed. Just as much as daring to say the world is round a few hundred years ago.
I think Atheism can seem arrogant since there is a vociferous and evangelical streak. Look at dear old Dawkins, the poster boy of the Evangelical Atheist movement. All he needs is tracts and followers who hand them out.
I confess, I tend to apply the metric if a theist’s imaginary friend was called Bob and not Jesus, you’d put them away and treat them as slightly dangerous loons. However, some Atheist’s level of faith (it being all but impossible to prove an negative) equally disturbing.
Hi. One dictionary definition of the word “religion” is that a “strongly held personal belief” qualifies, which surprised me, and made me realize that I was, myself, “religious,” even when I was an atheist!
Toward the end of his book, *The Theory of Everything*, Stephen Hawking brings up the point that we don’t know why any of the laws of nature ever went into effect in the first place. He considers the possibility that God caused it all, then asks “Who made him?” In other words, he takes an agnostic stance.
Since God can neither be proven nor disproved in a laboratory, atheism is an assumption not supported by empirical evidence. In other words it is a “strongly held personal belief,” or a religion, while agnosticism (With no whining required!) is a more truly objective stance.
Thank you. Thank you very much. (Elvis has left the building.)
Arrogance isn’t so much the issue. Theists believe in the presence of a God while Atheists don’t, but it all boils down to faith. Because of how little we know about our universe, the believed existence of no God requires just as much faith as the believed existence of one. All of the arguments towards evolution go towards creationism as well.
The reason why the belief in a God is so beneficial, if only in concept, is that if a Theist is wrong, he doesn’t have anything to lose. If an Atheist is wrong, he has everything to lose.
If you read the bible there are prophacies that have come true. Things talked about in the Bible still can be seen today. I am a Christian. Jesus chose to die on a cross, so people can go to heaven. No other religion has someone who would die for you. Everyone knows there is a God, they don’t want to believe it so they say that they don’t. Also they don’t want to be ruled by anyone so they don’t believe it’s real.
All you Atheists are confused by satin (brainwashed). Go to church, read the Bible, keep an open mind. Remember, wether you chose to believe it or not God does exsist, and he cares about you. That’s why he created you.
JD: that’s so absurd that it almost looks like intentional trolling.
You actually seem like you’re stealing from the “16 myths”: everyone knows there’s a god, and so on. Surprise: a lot of us don’t!
Think about it: if I “knew” there was a god, what good would my then-childish “rebellion” do? I’d end up in hell anyway, and I’d know it! Isn’t that a bit stupid?
The answer is that I am as convinced that God doesn’t exist as I’m convinced about Thor, Zeus or unicorns. I’ve seen no indication of the existence of any of those, and I don’t believe in wishful thinking - which, concerning the lack of evidence, is the main reason to believe in a god (the other is the argument from ignorance).
But never mind. If you’re serious instead of being trolling, read some other posts here and answer them, instead of “witnessing” in general terms. I doubt you can, but surprise me.
The logic you use can be used in reverse:
Why do atheists arrogantly hate believers in God and then arrogantly
live in His world as though it’s okay to arrogantly sponge off his creation
without giving him credit for giving it to them.
In fact they arrogantly hate Him so much, they spend arrogantly blog line after blog line
arrogantly denouncing His very existence. Yet they arrogantly eat His food, arrogantly drink His water and today arrogantly look for His creation in space. Everything they arrogantly find, they think it is just there for the taking, but arrogantly deny any God was behind their privilege to arrogantly take it.
In other words, , “being an arrogant atheist doesn’t necessitate being a bigot, but it certainly arrogantly ups your chances.”
DEJA VU.
Rev,
[quote post="111"]Why do atheists arrogantly hate believers in God and then arrogantly
live in His world as though it’s okay to arrogantly sponge off his creation
without giving him credit for giving it to them.[/quote]
In order for this quote to have merrit, you’d have to prove that God exists. (AT LEAST show some evidence)
There is nothing arrogant about eating or drinking, and if I didn’t believe in God because I was born on a desert Island, I’d hope you wouldn’t concider me arrogant for continueing to live.
Further, by repeating the word arrogant, you’ve done nothing more than show your own arrogance in having the right to judge atheists as if they were lesser humans.
“I can be sure it was my cat” - If theists were any smarter they would say “God worked through your cat to deplete your resources”
Nice article btw.
Then please give us some evidence that suggests that God does NOT exist. See? You can’t.
That’s the problem: Religion is not science. As a matter of fact, YOU CAN’T ARGUE EITHER WAY. Arguing that God does not exist merely because He doesn’t show Himself is as arrogant as claiming that God must exist because of some random metaphysical logic.
I’m an agnostic Christian, by the way, and just as offended by closed-minded Christians claiming to be able to »prove« God’s existence as by closed-minded Atheists accusing Christians to be irrational because a scientific proof does not exist. (Yes, that’s you. And if you don’t think being an agnostic Christian is possible, you don’t know enough about Christianity to argue against it.)
[quote comment="10138"]Then please give us some evidence that suggests that God does NOT exist. See? You can’t.[/quote]
Sigh. Must we go there again?
Can you prove that Thor doesn’t exist? See? You can’t.
But you don’t have to. Because the burden of proof is on the side of those who say that something does exist. Especially when the claim is extraordinary… say, “there is an invisible, undetectable, omnipotent being”.
[quote comment="10138"]Religion is not science. As a matter of fact, YOU CAN’T ARGUE EITHER WAY… I’m an agnostic Christian, by the way…[/quote]
An agnostic Christian? As in, “I’m [i]fairly[/i] sure God was made flesh and executed so that my sins could be washed away by his blood… but, hey, certainty’s an arrogant thing!”?
Well. Religion is not science. That’s true. But you seem to be dividing the world into “science”, covering everything from biology to archaeology to economics, and “religion”, meaning those things that aren’t rigorously tested and debated.
Religion, by the way, is not synonymous with God. Since the masses of information and understanding we’ve earned over the millennia point to iron-age mythology being claptrap, it’s likely that, even if there is a God (unlikely), it would not at all be a God we can relate to. We are, after all, only human, and our perception of Him would always be rather weak.
Pedro, mate: great summary. But we know it’ll change nothing. Our sin as atheists, it seems, is being “arrogant” enough to use empirical evidence to create a coherent world-view.
I think people are just too freakin’ stupid and preprogrammed with a bunch of evolutionary crap to make a decent judgement about God (or a lot of other things) one way or the other. How many of you critters has trouble with your checkbook, remembering where you put your keys, or the name of you friends cousin’s girlfriend. You can’t handle that stuff, but you presume to make a judgemnt about GOD. Jeez.
BTW, If you accept “People are Stupid” then the world makes a lot more sense.
jim williamson: you could adapt it to
Jim Williamson: You make more sense than anybody. You crack me up.
Great illustrations to drive home your point, simple ones, home grown.
I’m glad you liked it Rev. I will be here for the rest of my life.
BTW, isn’t the primary concern NOT whether there is a God or not, but rather how we live our lives? Isn’t “Is religion a good thing or bad” more about what it does or doesn’t do in practical everyday terms? Religion, in general, provides a philosophical basis for many, and they can use it to blow up the WTC or feed the hungry. Therefore, it’s really about what YOU DO,not necessarily what you believe, whether atheist, theist, or agnostic. If you practice the Golden Rule,a good common sense sociologically sound practice that benefits the whole group,then it doesn’t matter what you or your neighbor believes. It matters how you practice your beliefs.
Great illustrations !
I totally agree with John Williamson. It’s about what you do, not your beliefs. I will use two Atheists I know as an example:
One atheist is a colleague of mine at work. We know for a fact that, on Saturday nights, he goes over to his local church and whips eggs at it. Therefor, on Sunday, the church-goers will have their holy building desecrated and covered in eggs. When we ask him why he does it, he responds “Because they are stupid lemmings”. Maybe it’s just because I’m Christian, but I find that to be the supreme definition of an arrogant asshole.
Another Atheist is my friend. He knows I’m Christian, and he doesn’t care. Instead of arguing over our beliefs, we periodically share our points of view. He doesn’t look for arguments, nor does he spend all his time on online forums attempting to persuade other people his beliefs are better. He’s just a person, living his life, trying to find peace with other people around him.
Here, we have two individuals, same basic belief set (or lack thereof). They both have completely different behavior. Unfortunately, from what I’ve been seeing, the majority of Atheists fall into the first category.
Hi. I agree, action is more impotant than belief. I’ve spent some time recently on some very pro-atheist forums, and I “get” their perspective more than I did before. Not that I agree with it, but here’s where it comes from:
It seems they place rationality above everything else, and consider it very important that others should see it the same. There’s a bit of a problem when you start believing irrational things with no evidence, because even a small step in that direction opens the door for someone to come along and fill your head with all kinds of silly and dangerous ideas. If you’ve seen what the result of that can be, you can be rather… motivated to evangelize your particular anti-religious point of view. I think for those people, it’s not arrogance, it’s more fear and a genuine desire to stamp out something they see as a serious problem in society (irrationality). And given many people can’t balance their checkbook, I wish anyone luck trying to convince them not to believe in silly things.
And the “arrogant” atheists I’ve talked to just don’t want to admit that we don’t know God doesn’t exist. “A negative data point is a valid data point, and so since we’ve looked for God and seen no evidence, it’s valid to say there is no God” is an argument I’ve heard. But even most people on the forum I was on admitted they couldn’t disprove God.
Another interesting thing I found was a mixing up of terms. Many of the athests on these boards are what most people would call agnostic. They called themselves “Agnostic Atheists”, stating that if you weren’t sure whether God existed or not, that’s the default position to take. Kind of like how there is moral, amoral and immoral, there is theist, atheist and non-theist.
As for “All I ever see is arrogant atheists”, being more obvious and visible doesn’t make them more numerous. It’s the same fallacy which makes some people think it’s more dangerous to fly than to drive, because plane crashes make more of an impression than car crashes. Or, for that matter, to make non-christians see Christians as more similar to televangelists than they really are
Fact changes based on our ability to perceive the truth of it. Think of “science” 100, 500, 1000, 5000 years ago. Commonly accepted truths today would have been rejected because of their lack of ability to test them because they couldn’t perceive them. It wasn’t very long ago that science believed everything was made up of cardinal elements, that was the truth of their time. The beliefs of 500 years ago seem absurd to us today, and 500 years from now I’m sure many of our beliefs will seem just as absurd. Atheism’s arrogance is to assume that everything they hold true is the truth that will never change. This is the same arrogance of theists.