First, a disclaimer: I’m European (Portuguese, in fact). I read a lot of blogs and sites from the U.S., though.
A current controversy in the U.S. seems to be the so-called “War on Christmas”. In short, it’s like this: Americans tend to be quite fanatical about everything related to religion - including the lack of it -, and are also easily offended. (No, I’m not saying all are like this, but these are certainly the ones who make the most noise.)
So, some time ago, it was “decided” that saying “merry Christmas” is endorsing Christianity - which, of course, means insulting all other religions. After complaints, and since store chains are paranoid about offending anyone, many chains made it a nation-wide policy not to say “merry Christmas”, but something like “happy holidays”, or “season’s greetings”.
Naturally, the other side didn’t like it, and speak of a “War on Christmas” by “ultra-liberal organizations” (what does that mean, anyway?). And polemic ensues - it’s “us against them”, it’s a battle between the “forces of secularism” trying to “destroy Christmas” (and Christianity, in general), and those who “stalwartly defend” it.
Now, thinking rationally for a while… don’t you think that all of that is a bit ridiculous?
In Europe, we don’t tend to be so fanatical. Neither our Christians, nor our atheists, nor those of other religions. “Merry Christmas”, to most people, doesn’t necessarily have anything to do with religion - Christians may celebrate the birth of Jesus, while everyone else has a holiday where the family eats codfish (in Portugal) or turkey or something else, together, then give gifts to each other. Simple as that.
“Merry Christmas” doesn’t offend anyone. Why should it? It’s a holiday, except to Christians.
Or am I oversimplifying things?
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There might be some simplifying involved.
I think it’s majorly a Judaism vs Christianity issue: Hannukah vs Christmas.
Yes, it seems like something out of a “Kyle’s Mom” person. In fact, they once did a whole episodewhich was a parody on this very particular subject: displaying scenes of nativity in the school christmas play, etc. When they removed every single Xmas relateditem, what was left was an stale and awkward dance number, with all the children wearing nothing but black leotards, and everyone hated it.
Wonder if this frenzy for the “politically correct” will ever overflow to other areas, like what colours are the clothes people wear, etc.
Personally, I tend to avoid sentences that concern all the existing human populace on planet Earth, it’s too big a risk and may be taken by some as an arrogant remark. If there is someone that feels something offends them, then they should be given the opportunity to avoid being exposed to such content. But, and this is the gist of it, it should in absolutely no way change the ones who aren’t offended’s “viewal” of the same content.
For example: if I don’t like maiyonnaise on my salad, I don’t go on a crusade to ban maiyonnaise! If I don’t like people who wear pink shoes, I don’t ask any shopkeeper who might have some on display to remove them from his displaycase because they offend me.
What about if someone found wearing clothes offensive? Would everyone start prancing around in all their naked glory in order not to offend someone?
I’ll end my long-winded coment with a rhetorical question: would you stop saying a particular word everytime someone found it offensive? Sure, we’d start with cursing… then expressions, then witty comments, then criticizing altogether would end… suggestions, requests, questions, opinions.
Hey, why don’t we all just start speaking in a programming language that pleases everyone!?
hmm… by your own admission, you’re not here, so i think you’ve maybe missed some of the nuances of this debate. first of all, most non-christians (mself, for example) don’t take offense to the terms “merry christmas” BUT because of our constitutional statute banning the endorsement of religion by the GOVERNMENT, i/we DO take offense to state-sponsored christmas activities (ie public school children performing religious songs such as “silent night”, etc.
the whole thing has been blown out of proportion by, specifically, FOX news and Bill O’Rielly, who together compose the source of this “war on christmas” nonsense. most of us regular americans see it for what it is - a giant bunch of nonsense that the religious conservatives are using to paint those who are compassionate enough to include ALL religions and athiests in their holiday greetings as somehow being evil or “anti-christmas”.
Cinclaw: trust me, I know exactly what you mean. You can’t sneeze without some people being “offended to the core of their being”.
stranger: in a way, I’m glad to see that it’s been blown out of proportion - a whole country worried about that would be a scary thought. And, like I said, I wasn’t implying that most Americans were like that - though the ones who are certainly make a lot of noise, and have, right now, 1030 articles on Google News, not to mention a Wikipedia entry.
Around here, such a thing might make the back page of a local newspaper… if that.
Then again, around here the front pages of national papers are reserved to political scandals and soccer matches… so we’re not really wiser.
You’re over simplifying.
There’s a lot more to this issue than you seem to be aware of. Here in the states an organization known as the ACLU ( American Civil Liberties Union ) is systematically attempting to quash, by force of law, any public religious reference. They do this by targeting small entities who don’t have the financial resources to defend themselves. Often the targeted entity, a local school board for instance, is forced to give up without a fight since it requires massive amounts of money to defend against a civil suit. Once the ACLU wins in court, the decision based on that law suit becomes a part of case law and is used to decide subsequent cases.
The ACLU has caused the banning of the words “under God” as used in our Pledge of Allegiance in certain parts of the country. They are attempting to have the words “in God we trust” removed from our coinage. The ACLU, and other equally well financed groups can rightly be said to be at war with religion generally and Christianity specifically.
It’s not just about “Merry Christmas”.
PS. Funnily enough, the American Civil Liberties Union no longer has anything whatsoever to do with Americans or their civil liberties. Go figure.
Jack: I’d prefer that another American answered several of your points, as I’m not there - like I said, I only read a lot of blogs and news sites.
Still, if you believe in the separation of church and state, then the “under god” shouldn’t be there. Especially because it wasn’t there in the beginning, it was just added in the 50s, during the Red Scare, to distinguish America from the “evil godless commies”.
“Separation of church and state” is, to me, an obvious concept. And either you support it or you don’t.
I don’t know what else the ACLU does (I admit it’s quite possible that they are “corrupt” in some ways), but, as to the examples you give, the only way you can disagree with them is if you also disagree with the aforementioned separation.
I’m an American and I agree with you completely. Simple is good. I believe in Christ in Christmas - I mean come on, where did it come from in the first place? I’m not offended that people celebrate it without acknowledging that. I’m not offended when someone says, Happy Hannukah to me. I say it back. After all, they are celebrating it and it should be a happy time. I do think, though, that if someone wants to say Merry Christmas, they should without feeling like someone is going to be offended. It is really getting tsk tsked here though. You’re right, it’s just too weird.
- Horace Finkle, Teenage Ghost
http://www.horacefinkle.blogspot.com
Horace said it quite well
I hadn’t thought of it that way, actually. It’s like the different measurements of the years’ passing: the “christian” (also known as “western”) “world” does it according to Jesus Christ’s theoretiocal date of birth; I think the muslim people does the same, except they do it according to the Prophet Mohammed’s date of birth/date (not really sure about this one, they taught this in school in History class, but that was something like 6 years ago, so I don’t remember :|; the jewish have a simpler, yet impractical (in my opinion, at least): they just don’t do it. (I’m not even remotely sure about this one, but I think I remember something that goes along that line of thought).
About State-Church separation, I think we have it here in Europe in pretty much every country (with the Vatican being the only exception [and I'm not sure about it]). But then, it’s two totally different ways of thinking I’m writing about here, so that argument is really kind of void
I think it should stay at an individual basis: if you’re offended by it, don’t say it and NICELY ask those who do, and only regarding doing it again to YOU, and ONLY YOU, not to do it again by this or that reason (hey, you could be offended by how it sounded, or with the both mystical&hazardous number of letters it contains, how could I know?). But, again, I’m from a European country, and I’m told and read that things in the US are that much different from the ones here.
Yep, it’s ridiculous. And this is coming from an American (however my husband is British and immigrated here in 2002). We Americans are silly like that sometimes - just look at who we elected as President
Quite honestly, and I speak for only myself here - not the whole of America, it shouldn’t matter what holiday we are celebrating or why. Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, Blessed Yule, Happy Kwanzaa, whatever. The intent is to express to another person that you want them to have a happy and peaceful holiday, no matter which one they celebrate. So whether you say “Merry Christmas” or “Happy Holidays”, I would hope that the person being wished that would be mature enough to know the meaning behind it, despite the words.
It also is only the fanatical Christians over here (and that is pretty much an American only thing - and yes it sucks) that make such a fuss over that. The rest of us just roll our eyes and sigh.
Pedro,
No, you’re not really oversimplifying things. It’s a pretty simple concept. In a situation where the Government “endorses” a religion, they are wrong — since public schools receive a majority of their funding from the Federal Government, they shouldn’t be endorsing any religion either — private schools and institutions are free do do what they want.
As to the ACLU, some things they do like fighting on the religion front lines is really innocuous compared to some of their other activities which truly do not represent America or civil rights for Americans.
“The ACLU has caused the banning of the words “under God” as used in our Pledge of Allegiance in certain parts of the country. They are attempting to have the words “in God we trust” removed from our coinage.”
Yes, because they aren’t constitutional. They are an endorsement of religion by the government and shouldn’t be there. If people don’t want to be sued by the ACLU, they should stop breaking the constitution.
As to the whole debate, it’s been muddied by the use of the word “offence”. No, I’m not offended when you sing a Christmas carol or say “Merry Christmas”. I don’t particularly care. But when the government do it, using the money of taxpayers and in the name of the citizens, it’s in a categorically different realm. They should be held to strict rules.
You want a big Christmas celebration? Great. Get your church to organise something. Get together with other people in your area to organise something. Don’t rely on the government to do it. Do I get offended by the fact that in my country (the UK), the state pays a lot of deference to religion? No. It’s not a matter of offence. I think it’s stupid and wrong, not offensive. If you don’t agree with the principles of something, you shouldn’t be forced to subsidise it.
Why should an atheist or a Buddhist or a Jew be forced to pay for celebrations which are predominantly Christian? The Christians never subsidise atheist celebrations and parties or pay to set up menorahs outside courthouses.
What’s the saying? “Good fences make good neighbours”. Start lowering those fences, and you’re going to start a bloodbath.
i enjoyed reading this post and the discussion that followed.
it reminds me of the south park episode where they say, “or ‘X-mas’ for those of you who hate Jesus!”
Pedro, the concept of church/states seperation is a nebulous one. If you ask one hundred different people what it means, you’ll get one hundred different answers.
Not terribly long ago the first ammendment was interpreted to mean simply that there is to be no official state religion which citizens are required to profess. Only in the last few decades have the waters been muddied to the extent that children have been barred from any proffesion of Christianity in public schools. Of course, other religions–Islam for instance– are given a pass. I make that statement because verifiable stories abound of Muslim children being allowed to pray during the school day, that being a requirement of their religion.
Simply put, I believe that if a child wants to say “under God” while saying The Pledge of Allegiance in a public school classroom, he or she should be allowed to do so without fear that his school district will be sued by the ACLU, an organisation which has nothing to to with Americans or their civil liberties.
It’s not that nebulous in the Bill of Rights: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”.
And where are these “stories abound”? Teacher-led, in-classroom prayer isn’t allowed in public schools. Student-led, out-of-classroom prayer is. Simple enough.
Ooooh, gonna be a fight?? Can I buy a ticket?
First, thanks to Tom Morris for bring some facts into the debate. It seems bizarre to me that the Christians in America should be so paranoid all of a sudden, as they have way more power here than any religious sect should. They weren’t content to just have the right to worship as they saw fit; they keep fighting to have their particular religion “endorsed” by the US government, in direct opposition to the instructions in our Constitution. First, they insisted on “In God We Trust” printed on all our money and their high holy day (xmas) being a national holiday, and then they had the audacity to insist that schoolkids say “under God” every day. If it had been the Muslims who thought of that convenient brainwashing technique, and kids had to recite “one nation under Allah,” the Christians would be the first ones citing the Establishment Clause and shouting about the Separation of church and state. But they seem unable to grasp that making me recite “under God” throughout my childhood (I’m nonreligious) is just as offensive to me as “under Allah” would be to them. I used to complain about it, and the Christians at my school would say, “Oh, we don’t say whose god, just whatever god you believe in.” What a load of crap! The Christians are the only ones who call their god “God.” (I’ve always wondered what they name their pets…Cat and Dog?)
There isn’t a “war on Christmas” by nonChristians…Christians are waging a war on nonChristians, just as they always do in any place where they have enough people to do so. If there’s a backlash against the Christian “Do it our way or spend eternity in torture” threatmongering, it’s about time! Every religion that proseletyzes is evil, a massive “what you believe is bullshit, what I believe is sacred!” attitude that is responsible for the majority of human suffering throughout history.
People smart enough to use reason and logic should check out the following entertaining and educational sources:
http://www.edkrebs.com/herb/ — check out the hilarious cartoon archive!
What do you really know about the Bible? Quiz - enlightening! - http://ffrf.org/quiz/bquiz.php
What do you really know about the Separation of church and state? Quiz - http://ffrf.org/quiz/ffrfquiz.php
This website explores what the differences are between the major religions and the impact they have. Interesting. - http://www.channel4.com/culture/microsites/C/can_you_believe_it/index.html
I’m a Bright! Are you a Bright? http://www.the-brights.net
Karen
Im responding to the main post here
yah your right though theres always one who will make it into something bigger than it needs to be
and it may only require one fanatic to change things.
though i believe stores and producers in general care to much about offending one side or the other.