What is prayer, if not attempting to change God’s mind?
It’s a strange concept, if you think about it. God (the Judeo-Christian version) is supposedly perfect - including being omniscient, omnipotent, and a good, loving god. So, wouldn’t his initial “intention” be the best one? If so, do you want him to do something “worse” instead? And, also, isn’t it a bit arrogant to believe that you can change the mind of a perfect being?
It’s weird that I never thought about these things during the 26 years I was a Christian…
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It’s very simple, a prayer is putting into thoughts or words your wishes, either they’re God’s will or not. But as a priest friend of mine used to say: “Don’t pray to get good grades at school if you don’t study, God has too much work and might be busy at that time”…
it is a strange concept. i always laugh when i see professional atheletes praying before a game, as if - if there *was* a god, football would be her priority. i mean, really…
Prayer is communication.
Is it so strange when you are in a difficult situation to ask for a friend’s assistance or advise?
On the other hand there are many actions some Christians embrace that are little more than superstition. We all have room for growth, I have as much error as the next fellow, more than others.
I think praying is a way of self-encouraging, I mean, if you have an omnipotent being backing you up, how can you possibly fail?
I believe (wrong verb, me being a “awaiting evidence” kind of guy) a prayer is like a request, not an order. I think I recall the words “please” or “if you could” (yes, 3 words, not just one) show up quite often in a prayer. I think even the most fanatical of religious zealots doesn’t say “I told God this was the right thing to do!”, they usually say the opposite
Sentences like: “Please tell me”, “Help me achieve”, “I need your counsel”, “How do I get this stain off?” are the prayer’s “tools of the trade”. How can this work, being that you very rarely (if ever) get an answer? It’s simple.
While praying, one usually states all he knows or thinks he knows about the “prayer’s topic”, which should be futile, since (s)he’s “all-seeing, all-hearing, all-knowing”. But yet it isn’t. It allows, under the guise of a one-way dialogue with a semi-real entity, the praying person to reflect on it. And being as he or she isn’t aware he/she’s doing so, the answer comes as an insight. This insight is “blamed” on God’s divine intervention. Doesn’t insight feel “perfect”? That one instant where everything just comes into place in an unexplainable magical way? Isn’t “unexplainable magical” one of a deity/god’s traits? Well, this proves nothing regarding its (un)existence, but it’s a nice point of view
The question here is: would that person have reached the same answer (be it right or wrong, both can happen) if she/he had not prayed? Would it have come in more/less handy?
Keep this in mind: I follow no religion ^_^
Prayer is union, not asking. Asking is not union, all one is saying is that one wants something, but the truth is that nobody knows what they want. Say if God gave somebody this girl, and this perfect job position, would God also take this girl from another guy, or potential mate, or this job application, or potential job applicant. All people from all religions ask this.
How right you are! I had not really looked at it that way, not in my early “believer” years, nor in the later open-minded-but-not-religious years.
Yet, I agree with Kanzentai. Prayer is like positive thinking: repeating the same thing over and over again will inevitably lead to concentrating on it, therefore finding an answer.
Prayer Is Foolishness
God is not a person, God is a presence. God is
lived not seen..
When you have a time alone (prayer) you are not having a time
alone with anyone…..But your very own presence.
There is no thou and I, there is only “I.”
Praying is not just asking it is demanding, give me this,
give me that.. Prayer is for your own selfish needs. Of
I WANT this.. And you use the excuse “well so and so
needs this or that” You haven’t a clue as to what another
person needs.. The mask you wear is subtle, and only covers
up what you “think” is for the better of another.
Kneeling down and praying in churches or synagogues, bowing
before images is foolishness. You do this because others
do it.. And if you don’t do it, you feel left out. Fear
sets in.. Instead of standing in the presence of “I” you
are being dictated to.. A follower of the robe wearers.
It takes courage to stand away from the crowd.. You feel
that so many do it so it must be the “right” thing to do.
You just recycle all the things you see and hear..
It is a religious act.. A crowd act.. And one that is
most foolish. A follower of the crowd instead of a
leader..
This is of my own understanding.. You don’t have to agree.
It is just something you can think upon. Maybe say,
“I have never thought of it that way before.”
I have to disagree with you on praying being demanding. At least, according to my concept of praying. I see prayer as a request, and, sure, some will be bolder in the way they present it.
To put it in a “different” light, praying is like asking a semi-rhetorical question to the deity you worship: you don’t expect an answer, but anything that shows up as a result of having made the “request” won’t be turned down.
When you ask someone for help, have you demanded that (s)he help you or merely asked?
Also, the selfishness of praying depends a lot on what is being prayed for. Is praying that your son/daughter does well on a very important exam selfish? Is praying your soldier spouse doesn’t come to harm on the battlefield selfish? Whether it is a placebo or not is not the question, but the fact is saying those words, whether (S)He/They exist(s) or not, will reassure the one who prays.
There are selfish prayers, sure. But I believe not all of them are.
The funny thing is I don’t follow any religion, yet I’m standing up “prayer”
PS: Isn’t “I hope I win the lottery this week” kind of a prayer? ^_^
God is in the business of being God. How can It “heal” something when It didn’t create it in the first place. God has nothing to do with it. IT is what you have been taught by others. If you are sick it is your “mind” that
created it. Prayer is demanding something from IT what was not created by It.
The lotters is useless, after all, all things were already given. So that is sort of missing the mark.
I don’t pray for anyone. I see it then it happens. We create our world by our thoughts.
And I also know of karma. We will reap that which we have sown.
I don’t practice any religion either. I am that I am. All things are within us. I guess you could
say I am a bit of everything.
I mean no offense by the followin remark: you sound like a prophet
Am I the only atheist around here?
Ha. I am not a prophet by far. I am just me. And atheist are very enlightened. They just don’t
give Soruce credit haha. But that’s’ ok by me.
I have been praying to God most of my life, and intend to continue to do so through the rest of my life. It would be presumptious to say the least to think that I am going to change the Almighty’s mind. What I mostly pray for is the wisdom to make the best choices, to deal wisely with adversity, to do His will in all things, and to accept the premise that even bad things can work for good for those who love Him.
Have I never begged and pleaded with God? Of course I have. I’m human. But I wholeheartedly agree that I do not want God to change from his BEST plan to accomodate MY idea of what’s best for me. That’s the essence of faith.
I think that a ‘prayer’ is just a way to express a need for either company or help - having God (or guardian angels, for that matter) watching your back / (divine) intervention, respectively. If you wish someone well, you pray for them, if you are confused, you pray and ask for enlightment.
I don’t see, however, what difference it can make to the real world. I say ‘real’ because there is a clear difference to the spiritual domain. The world we live in is made of billions and billions of random happenings, some leading to good things, others to bad things. Let’s say that you wish someone to fare well on some important exam. So, you pray. Suppose now that that same person Does fare well on the exam. Is it God’s work? He studied, he knew all the stuff -> he did well on the exam. Where is the divine intervention? As to me, nowhere… I’m a non believer… But now, what if that person doesn’t do well on that exam. Is God to blame? I think not… If you fail, it isn’t God’s fault, it’s yours BUT if you succeed, than you had God’s help (?). God is only there for good things. Make no mistake, I’m not complaining, I’m just saying how I feel and I think you’ll find it to be a bit true.
When some people see a beautiful landscape, or a delicate flower, they say it’s God’s work. But, when you look at the poor african people, dying through starvation and poverty, or a 3-year-old child who is probably going to die because of bad water, that too is God’s work, isn’t it? It must be… he supposedly created the universe and all…
Moses changed God’s mind about wiping out the people of Israel in the book of Exodus. For whatever that’s worth to those reading this.
As a born-again believer, I really don’t know how to identify with the idea of prayer being like offering a wish list to God and hoping He’ll come through on it. I honestly from experience and understanding of the Word of God understand prayer to be something we do to change ourselves more than it “changes” His mind.
Peace out, interesting reading on this blog.
If life is a game, praying to God would be like asking a GM for help: he’ll either say “we’re looking into it” or “it’s working as intended”.